Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Rules Discussion => Topic started by: jacksmack on April 09, 2014, 05:07:15 AM
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To my knowledge:
A revealed Magebane does one last damage when its dispelled.
Correct?
If a Priestess uses a purify to get rid of a poisened blood, will she get the divine reward hp or not (assuming its the first holy inc / ench she casts this round.) ?
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No to first question, yes to second one.
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No to first question, yes to second one.
thanks.
But why is it so?
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Because thete is not "inbetween" to a Resolve phase. If a Dispel is Resolved, it means the enchantment is gone completly.
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Because thete is not "inbetween" to a Resolve phase. If a Dispel is Resolved, it means the enchantment is gone completly.
[mwcard=MW1E24]Magebane[/mwcard] states that the mage takes a point of direct damage when a spell is cast and resolved. So even when you Dispel the Magebane you take damage as both results ate triggered during the Resolve spell step, the direct damage and the dispel of the card.
The same hold true for Poisoned Blood and Purify both the removal and the Life Gain happen during the Resolve Spell step, just think of it as you getting to choose the order of the two results.
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Because thete is not "inbetween" to a Resolve phase. If a Dispel is Resolved, it means the enchantment is gone completly.
[mwcard=MW1E24]Magebane[/mwcard] states that the mage takes a point of direct damage when a spell is cast and resolved. So even when you Dispel the Magebane you take damage as both results ate triggered during the Resolve spell step, the direct damage and the dispel of the card.
The same hold true for Poisoned Blood and Purify both the removal and the Life Gain happen during the Resolve Spell step, just think of it as you getting to choose the order of the two results.
Check in the FAQ. Dispelled Magebane doesnt trigger damage.
Magebane doesnt trigger during Resolve phase. It trigger AFTER a spell Resolve. And if Dispel Resolve, Magebane doesnt exist anymore.
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Because thete is not "inbetween" to a Resolve phase. If a Dispel is Resolved, it means the enchantment is gone completly.[mwcard=MW1E24]Magebane[/mwcard] states that the mage takes a point of direct damage when a spell is cast and resolved. So even when you Dispel the Magebane you take damage as both results ate triggered during the Resolve spell step, the direct damage and the dispel of the card.
The same hold true for Poisoned Blood and Purify both the removal and the Life Gain happen during the Resolve
Spell step, just think of it as you getting to choose the order of the two results.
Check in the FAQ. Dispelled Magebane doesnt trigger damage.
Magebane doesnt trigger during Resolve phase. It trigger AFTER a spell Resolve. And if Dispel Resolve, Magebane doesnt exist anymore.
Thanks! I missed that update in the FAQ, at one point early one I asked this exact question and was provided the answer I gave above.
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Because thete is not "inbetween" to a Resolve phase. If a Dispel is Resolved, it means the enchantment is gone completly.
[mwcard=MW1E24]Magebane[/mwcard] states that the mage takes a point of direct damage when a spell is cast and resolved. So even when you Dispel the Magebane you take damage as both results ate triggered during the Resolve spell step, the direct damage and the dispel of the card.
The same hold true for Poisoned Blood and Purify both the removal and the Life Gain happen during the Resolve Spell step, just think of it as you getting to choose the order of the two results.
Check in the FAQ. Dispelled Magebane doesnt trigger damage.
Magebane doesnt trigger during Resolve phase. It trigger AFTER a spell Resolve. And if Dispel Resolve, Magebane doesnt exist anymore.
The intent was inorder for Dispell and MB to interact Dispell has to start resolving creating the delayed trigger.
Cleaned up wording
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I'm personally a little confused on this subject. The FAQ does indeed say that Magebane doesn't trigger until after the resolve spell step, but it also states specifically that it does cause damage when dispelled. This doesn't quite make sense to me.
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I'm personally a little confused on this subject. The FAQ does indeed say that Magebane doesn't trigger until after the resolve spell step, but it also states specifically that it does cause damage when dispelled. This doesn't quite make sense to me.
Are you sure? Last time i checked faq im pretty sure I read that it did not.
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I downloaded the most recent version before reviewing my thread on questions not answered in official documents, and noticed the discrepancy while performing that review today.
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from:
Mage_Wars_Official_Rules_and_Codex_Supplement_-_Updated_January_2014
Magebane
Magebane deals its damage after the spell that triggered it has been resolved. For example, when this creature casts a spell, you could reveal this at the end of the Counter Spell Step, and then at the end of Resolve Spell Step, after the spell resolves, this creature will take 1 direct damage. If the Mage destroys Magebane with a Dispel, it will still do a point of damage to him for casting the Dispel. In a duel, if a Mage casts a spell that kills the opposing Mage, and then dies due to Magebane damage, the game is a draw.
Where does this leave purify and divine reward against poisened blood?
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The FAQ has been updated since January. The most recent update was March 14th 2014. However, the quote that jacksmack has about Magebane remains identical. It has not been changed. And to be honest, this still leaves me confused about Magebane, much less Divine Reward. If Magebane triggers after the spell resolves, and can trigger after it is no longer even in the game, then does Poisoned Blood's effect still linger to prevent the Life Gain from Divine Reward (which also occurs after the spell resolves)? I don't know.
It would make sense to me that Dispelling a Magebane does not cause damage and Purifying a Poisoned Blood would allow Life Gain from Divine Reward because both effects trigger after the spell has resolved, meaning Magebane and Poisoned Blood would no longer be in the game to have any effect. However, the official word both supports this theory and contradicts it within a few short sentences, putting the whole thing in question.
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I will look into this more. However, as it sits now Poisoned Blood would not stop life gain from divine reward when you purified it off.
The difference is on Magebane the trigger is Cast and Resolved, which in order for dispel to remove an enchantment it would have to resolve. This triggers the Magebane, the magebane gets destroyed, but that trigger is standing out there an then it resolves.
For Poisoned Blood, finite life is a constant effect. When you go to Purify it, you'll trigger your divine reward. The reward will resolve after the Poisoned Blood is removed, hence you no longer have finite life. So you would gain a life from this.
The key seems to be which action is being triggered.
As I said, I'm going to look into this more, but I believe this is the thought right now.
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If that is the way you guys wish for this to occur, I think you could simplify your explanation. Essentially, what sIKE said earlier would be the best way to say it in my opinion. The two effects happen simultaneously, and like with most everything else when that occurs, you get to choose which order to resolve them in. With Magebane, the order chosen wouldn't really matter because they HAVE to resolve both events that triggered and the card destruction and damage don't really affect each other. With Divine Reward, they would obviously wish to remove the Poisoned Blood before attempting to gain the life.
Currently, the way it is stated in the FAQ it sounds like the effects would happen after the card had been destroyed rather than simultaneously with it, which would prevent Magebane from dealing it's damage methinks. It needs to be made clear that it triggers simultaneously with the spell resolution. Having the word "after" in the description of Magebane in the FAQ is a bit confusing.
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I can totally see where you're coming from. I'm going to be getting this cleared up one way or another. May take a little bit though.
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That is what surprised me about the opposing ruling, as the card text on MageBane:
"each time this creature casts and resolves a spell"
is indicative that the direct damage happens after resolution, and therefore even after it is dispelled, thus if a mage were to cast a spell and it were jinxed he would not take damage, but if it were nullified it would.
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I will look into this more. However, as it sits now Poisoned Blood would not stop life gain from divine reward when you purified it off.
The difference is on Magebane the trigger is Cast and Resolved, which in order for dispel to remove an enchantment it would have to resolve. This triggers the Magebane, the magebane gets destroyed, but that trigger is standing out there an then it resolves.
For Poisoned Blood, finite life is a constant effect. When you go to Purify it, you'll trigger your divine reward. The reward will resolve after the Poisoned Blood is removed, hence you no longer have finite life. So you would gain a life from this.
The key seems to be which action is being triggered.
As I said, I'm going to look into this more, but I believe this is the thought right now.
Ty for the extra info.
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After looking around a bit, I found the answer I was referring too, and the ruling came from Arcanus himself....
Magebane & Dispel (http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=8326.msg8342#msg8342)
You know what sucks? Reading through the old thread and I was on the side saying no damage, and I was wrong. Now read though this thread and I am on the side saying you take damage, and guess what I am wrong!!! So my new MW theorem 2+2=5
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After looking at [mwcard=MW1E24] Magebane[/mwcard] what this comes down to is if we are going to use delayed triggers or not.
If we allow for a delayed trigger as part of resolution of Dispel place MB in the discard but MB also says the spell is resolving so I get to do 1 damage. Placing the MB in the discard would not remove the triggered event.
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Yeah, thinking about it more, even having the simultaneous action resolution like I attempted to apply to it doesn't work. If we started using that logic, then things like Bleed would still do damage during Upkeep AFTER being removed by a point of Regeneration. That's just not the way the game works currently.
So, we run into the following problem. Magebane can't possibly trigger before being destroyed by Dispel, because Dispel has to resolve in order to trigger it. Magebane also can't possibly trigger after being destroyed by Dispel, because it is no longer in the game. However, Magebane is intended to trigger off of being Dispelled. How do we reconcile Magebane working as intended and working within the rules of the game? We either have to change some aspect of the rules (such as creating a Delayed Trigger rule of some sort like Shad0w mentioned) or we need to change the way Magebane works slightly.
After reading the thread that sIKE linked to, I think the simplest way to get Magebane to work as intended is to clarify that Magebane triggers upon ENTERING the Resolve Spell Step, and not upon the conclusion of the Resolve Spell Step. Thus, it actually happens before the spell takes effect.
However, this would interfere with the Divine Reward working as intended. Since it has the exact same wording, such a ruling would make it attempt to take effect before Poisoned Blood was removed and thus no longer function in such a scenario.
This is quite a conundrum.
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That is true it is a conundrum. But I'm gonna work with Bryan on it and get it figured out.
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Not really, after the spell is resolved you take the damage, just like any other spell.
Imagine the tentacles of the spell (Magebane) being pulled out of the mage as the Dispel takes effect, its last malevolent act as it is pulled away is to damage the mage one last time....the mage screams loudly as it looses its grip!
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Not really, after the spell is resolved you take the damage, just like any other spell.
Imagine the tentacles of the spell (Magebane) being pulled out of the mage as the Dispel takes effect, its last malevolent act as it is pulled away is to damage the mage one last time....the mage screams loudly as it looses its grip!
The problem is not a thematic one it is a question of rules function. If the rules team was to rule for delayed triggers. The it should be universal. This is the type of ruling that should not be case by case
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That I understand, but more damage is done by ruling one way then another, then going in a third time and trying to make a global ruling.
I find it very disconcerting, this is the same a Battle Fury, which had a ruling one way on the card text and which was completely obliterated by an errata'ed version of the card taking it 180 degrees the opposite direction from the previous ruling.
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That I understand, but more damage is done by ruling one way then another, then going in a third time and trying to make a global ruling.
I find it very disconcerting, this is the same a Battle Fury, which had a ruling one way on the card text and which was completely obliterated by an errata'ed version of the card taking it 180 degrees the opposite direction from the previous ruling.
BF was an issue of intent vs function the intent was to give an extra quick attack. The problem was by making it a new attack chain it allowed for all bonuses to be applied. So the community then made builds to exploit this fact.
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That I understand, but more damage is done by ruling one way then another, then going in a third time and trying to make a global ruling.
I find it very disconcerting, this is the same a Battle Fury, which had a ruling one way on the card text and which was completely obliterated by an errata'ed version of the card taking it 180 degrees the opposite direction from the previous ruling.
They've actually not flip flopped on this ruling any, sIKE (yet). The current ruling is consistent with the previous one. Wildhorn was incorrect when he told you that Magebane did not do damage when dispelled. The FAQ still says it does do damage when dispelled, and clarifies that it's damage occurs after the spell has finished resolving. The question is how this actually occurs within the framework of the rules. The timing just doesn't seem to work any which way you spin it for Magebane to be able to actually do it's damage. We understand that it is intended to function that way, but we just don't quite understand how it is allowed to function that way. And the answer to this question can impact other effects.
If the answer is that it triggers upon entering the Resolve Spell Step, before the effects actually occur, such as what seemed to be suggested by the discussion in the previous thread you linked to, then that has ramifications for other effects such as Divine Reward which would then cease to function as intended in some situations.
However, having it trigger after the spell has resolved also doesn't make sense because then Magebane is no longer even in play. We may have to have some kind of delayed trigger rule implemented such that Magebane and similar effects triggers upon entering the Resolve Spell Step but don't actually take effect or check for if it can even legally occur until after the spell has finished Resolving. However, that seems needlessly messy and convoluted to me.
At first, I was thinking along the lines of simultaneous effects where we simply state both the card destruction and the damage trigger at the same time. In typical Mage Wars fashion, you then get to choose the order they occur in. Since the damage has already triggered though, destroying Magebane first doesn't actually prevent it. However, this kind of logic would then affect other aspects of game play. Such as, Bleed and Regenerate both trigger from the Upkeep phase. You decided to resolve the Regenerate first to destroy the Bleed, but the damage from Bleed has already triggered so you still take it anyways. That's not currently how it works (unless I've seriously misinterpreted something).
So, right now I'm of the opinion that they should just reverse their decision regarding Magebane dealing damage when Dispelled. I have no problems with Magebane doing damage in that situation, but reversing this decision seems simpler than changing the rules (such as by adding Delayed Trigger rules) or changing the card itself to allow that kind of functionality. Perhaps another option can be found besides the ones I've discussed though. Regardless of how they decide to handle the question, as long as they make the rules clear and consistent I shall be happy.
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It seems the simplest change would be to revise the trigger wording on Magebane from "Casts and Resolves" to just "Casts".
On a related note - I always wondered why it had two non-adjacent steps listed as a trigger in the first place. Before the FAQ clarified this card it was plausible to apply the damage at the end of the Cast Spell step AND the Resolve step to fit the trigger. If it was meant to trigger only once, then it would be more clearly stated as "Casts and
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@Zuberi - thanks for the enlightenment! Thought that I had read the FAQ on this, but went back and re-read it again. Here is the wording as it is today.
Magebane deals its damage after the spell that triggered it has been resolved. For example, when this creature casts a spell, you could reveal this at the end of the Counter Spell Step, and then at the end of Resolve Spell Step, after the spell resolves, this creature will take 1 direct damage.
If the Mage destroys Magebane with a Dispel, it will still do a point of damage to him for casting the Dispel.
I think we are making this harder than it has to be. I think the wording in the last sentence should be changed to add clarity.
If the Mage destroys Magebane with a Dispel, it will still do a point of damage to him at the end of Resolve Spell Step, after the spell resolves for casting and resolving the Dispel.
Everything now should be crystal clear and we have no time/space/warp paradox of after the Resolve Spell Step to worry about.
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I think the way the FAQ is currently written is clearer than your suggested correction. There isn't really any confusion as to whether Magebane does the damage or even when it does it with the current wording, the question is how does it achieve this when it is already destroyed at that time. Usually objects that have been destroyed can not trigger....usually.
I did think of a precedent that lines up very nicely with what we're wanting from Magebane, and that is Damage Barriers. Damage Barriers are currently able to still do damage after they've been destroyed and essentially have a delayed trigger like what we've been discussing. They trigger during the Roll Dice Step but don't resolve until the Damage Barrier Step. They will resolve though even if destroyed before getting to the Damage Barrier Step. I actually describe Counterstrike as having a similar delayed trigger but failing because of targeting restrictions after being destroyed.
So, delayed triggers actually do already exist in the game for at least two very specific mechanisms. If we wish to apply that logic to Magebane, then we can simply say that it triggers upon entering the Resolve Spell Step, but does not actually occur until after the Resolve Spell Step. This decision won't even need anything changed or rewritten regarding Magebane or the rules currently in place, it simply affects our understanding of what's going on. I would, however, recommend something be written to guide us as to what all should be considered a delayed trigger and what should not. Without knowing what can be delayed and what can't, we can have all kinds of weird arguments popping up.
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Imo its very important that Magebane for balance purposes deals 1 damage when dispelled, because ALL other enchantments grants tempo when revealed even if opponent dispells right after.
(and we ofc assume "smart" reveal)
Its a question of what came first, the chicken or the egg?
It doesnt make sense to me that you can cast a spell and then destroy it "faster" than mage bane trigger.
Thematically magebane isto me Instant damage and occurs JUST as the spell is cast.
Balance:
Magebane is already gimped enough by being Must reveal as soon as it casts in order to trigger on a potential spellcast.
(If magebane is face down during step 1, it will not do damage sadly.)
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Actually, the FAQ states that you can reveal Magebane after the Counter Spell Step and it would still do a point of damage. This does go slightly against what is printed on the card, but is the most recent ruling on the subject. We definitely need some clarity as to exactly what is happening when effects like this trigger.
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Well.. im glad to see im wrong about that.
I gotta download the newest FAQ when I got time.
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The thing is 80% of our players will never get so deep as to understand how triggered effects fully work but for the people that will come to understand and do understand this is a very important topic. As Zuberi states
We definitely need some clarity as to exactly what is happening when effects like this trigger.
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I'm in favor of reversing any previous rulings that relied on delayed triggers of any kind. The "timing" model for rules priority used by MtG (and other games) is not a good one. Triggers should happen non-divisibly. There should not be separate steps to resolve a single trigger.
I can break lots of things in Mage Wars that currently work just fine if you let me use delayed triggers. Like, all the mandatory reveal enchantments would need combo review, for starters.
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I agree with ringkichard
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Delayed triggers would only occur if a trigger was created during the resolution of another event.
8)
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Two words: [mwcard=FWE08]Mind Shield[/mwcard]
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Two words: [mwcard=FWE08]Mind Shield[/mwcard]
The only issue with MS is it has the an extended wording on the card so player do not get confused. Any enchant that gives protection for a type would have the same effect even if it was not spelled out on the card. This is not a delayed trigger. Nore would making a target illegal be a delayed trigger.
If we had an effect that destroyed a equipment and the equip had cantrip it would cause a delayed trigger due to the fact states when this card is destroyed. So the destroy effect still happens then the spell returns to the book. If cantrip was to read if this would be destroyed it would replace the destruction effect and send the card to the book instead.
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Alright, clearly two words wasn't enough.
This is about the second half of the card, where Mind Shield does something no other card can do: it lets you reveal Mind Shield during the revealing of another enchantment. Normally, you can't reveal an enchantment during revealing an enchantment, because the steps to revealing an enchantment don't give you a chance to react (MtG would say they don't pass priority). But suppose I use Mind Shield to destroy [mwcard=MW1E30]Pacify[/mwcard] while you're revealing it. If I have some other effect that triggers when you reveal your Pacify I'll get to do that, too, if I can use a delayed trigger, even though the Pacify was canceled.
If you really want to make it hideous, you can do all this during an attack by a Passage Attack wall. Imagine a world where [mwcard=FWE01]Charm[/mwcard] was "Psychic, Curse" instead of "Psychic, Control". I walk my creature through a Wall of Fire, and during that creature's movement you reveal your Charm on it, to get benefit from Smouldering Curse. I then reveal Mind Shield while you're revealing the Charm, during the passage attack, while the creature is moving. That's a lot of things happening simultaneously, all of them potentially triggering. If I can stack and rearrange the effects of those triggers I'm going to be able to do some very weird things.
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Consider the MtG model of triggered effects. Every triggered effect is a grenade. After the trigger, grenades wait on the stack until they are processed later, last in first out, regardless of what has happened to the source. For example, in MtG, if an upkeep effect would destroy a Ghoul Rot, and the Ghoul Rot would do 2 damage, both effects would go on the stack and then would be resolved independently, and both would happen regardless of the order they resolved.
Contrast this to the much better Mage Wars system where triggered effects are much more like hitscan weapons. The trigger is pulled and the effect occurs before any other triggers can be pulled. If there's a conflict between two triggers, they're processed by priority depending on who controls the creature (or in some cases, initiative). But a whole trigger -> effect sequence is resolved sequentially, with each trigger followed by its effect before moving on to the next trigger. If an upkeep effect would destroy a Ghoul Rot, the creature's controller can destroy the Ghoul Rot and then the Ghoul Rot does nothing because it's gone.
If we try to import MtG's rule that all sources are potentially triggered regardless of their own destruction we're breaking the Trigger, Effect / Trigger, Effect / Trigger, Effect sequence. Instead we would have, "Trigger, Trigger, Trigger, Effect, Effect, Effect." This is bad, because it means we have to import a whole bunch of other MtG rules that conflict with extant (and superior) Mage Wars rules. We need a Stack, and triggers need to "see" their source's destruction, and probably a few other things like APNAP which I'm really too tired to figure out right now.
Like Zuberi said, in Mage wars, Magebane's effect needs to resolve adjacent to its trigger. It either needs to resolve before the spell resolves and it's destroyed (which can't happen because the spell didn't resolve yet) or after it's destroyed (which can't happen either, because destroyed things don't trigger).
The exception, as Shad0w noted, is that sometimes things trigger when the source are destroyed. This is a special template used for Cantrip, Rise Again, Mind Control, etc. If it is important that Magebane trigger when it's dispelled by a spell, the way Mage Wars rules would do that is to add an additional erratum sentence that says, "If Magebane is destroyed by a spell cast by this creature, this creature receives one direct damage."
In that situation, in order to maintain the Trigger, Effect, Trigger, Effect, Trigger, Effect pattern the prior effect is allowed to finish resolving (Magebane is destroyed) and then the special "on destruction" trigger occurs, and is placed in order by priority (again, determined by creature control or Initiative). Triggers continue to be processed, as normal, each with their subsequent effect. When that "on destruction" trigger comes up for resolution both the trigger and the effect are independent of the original source because the trigger explicitly says that it happens after the source is destroyed.
Otherwise the assumption is always that destroying the source of an effect prevents it from triggering, and that the trigger will be tested for legality at the time the source causes the effect, and that one of the preconditions for that effect is that the source exists. This is one of the best mechanical differences Mage Wars has from MtG, and it avoids so many counter-intuitive situations, and is responsible for the much higher feeling of verisimilitude Mage Wars has.
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I think ringkichard said things quite beautifully and much better than I could. Currently the only delayed triggers in the game that I can think of are Counterstrike and Damage Barrier where they very specifically state that they occur at this given time but ONLY if these things happened earlier. And that's not really a delayed trigger. That's doing the combat steps in order, not skipping any steps, and checking to see if the steps are legal to occur. For everything else in the game, the effects happen right after the trigger and I think it is a great system. I do not want to see us complicate things with convoluted trigger rules.
I agree with the idea that the decision should be that with the rules as currently written Magebane does NOT trigger when it is Dispelled. If they would like to keep that intended functionality, they can simply add an extra line to the text of Magebane like ringkichard suggested giving it an on destruction trigger, or otherwise change the card in some fashion. Leave the rules alone, in my opinion.
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As per the rules of revealing enchants the first step is to pay the reveal cost and then turn the card face up. Even mandatory enchants would follow this. That is why a special set of rules had to be made for mandatory enchants.
The only reason the line in question was added was to make it so the other player did not pay for the reveal and then have the card destroyed this was done for "balance". Back when the word for MS was being chosen we knew this may cause an issue down the road. The way MS works is that it allows the reveal then retro actively goes back and destroy the card before the cost is paid.
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Revealing Enchantments
The process for revealing enchantments is as follows:
1. Flip over the hidden enchantment card showing it to all players.
2. Counter the Enchantment: A player may reveal an enchantment or use an ability which specifically allows it be used during this step. For example, a Mind Shield can be revealed to counter and cancel a psychic enchantment. Other enchantments cannot be revealed at this time. As of this printing, Mind Shield is the only enchantment with this ability.
3. Pay Reveal Costs
4. Resolve the Enchantment’s Effects
There's no going back in time, there's just a process of steps that only Mind Shield can use.
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Revealing Enchantments
The process for revealing enchantments is as follows:
1. Flip over the hidden enchantment card showing it to all players.
2. Counter the Enchantment: A player may reveal an enchantment or use an ability which specifically allows it be used during this step. For example, a Mind Shield can be revealed to counter and cancel a psychic enchantment. Other enchantments cannot be revealed at this time. As of this printing, Mind Shield is the only enchantment with this ability.
3. Pay Reveal Costs
4. Resolve the Enchantment’s Effects
I just checked rule book 3.3 again
There's no going back in time, there's just a process of steps that only Mind Shield can use.
I just checked rule book 3.3 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/8f21l3bmbsnrrn4/MageWarsRulebook%20v3-3%20WEB.pdf) again in the pdf it has pay 1st.
When you reveal your enchantment, first you pay the reveal cost, before resolving the effect of the enchantment. If the cost is not paid, the enchantment is destroyed before it can resolve and have any effect. If the cost is paid, flip the enchantment over and reveal it to your opponent, then place it partially under the object it is attached to. -
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According to the complete codex (https://www.dropbox.com/s/cp60um686cgj1dy/MageWarsCompleteCodex1.0.pdf) the rulebook has current say on how reveal works.
Reveal Cost(Spell Attribute)When you reveal a hidden enchantment, turn it face up. The controller pays the reveal mana cost, if any (noted on the open eye symbol on the card), or else the enchantment is destroyed. See “Revealing Enchantments” on page 18 MWC
After looking over both i found what you are referencing Mage Wars Official Rules and Codex Supplement 3-14-14 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/lsl0yza6430fd41/Mage%20Wars%20Official%20Rules%20and%20Codex%20Supplement%20%203-14-14.pdf)
I will have to bring this up so all rules docks fall in line.
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So, both the Codex and FAQ seem to be saying that you reveal first and then pay, while the rulebook says the opposite. I'm not sure which document is more recent or more legitimate, but I think the steps laid out in the FAQ work the best.
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So, both the Codex and FAQ seem to be saying that you reveal first and then pay, while the rulebook says the opposite. I'm not sure which document is more recent or more legitimate, but I think the steps laid out in the FAQ work the best.
Welp this goes to the rest of the rules team for review.
I always played it as stated in the 3-14 doc but it is just better to let the rules team and Bryan talk it over and see what is best. 8)
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On it.
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Thanks Aaron