Also hello forum, long time no see 

Our Lord has returned! Just in time for frost spells, I suspect. Hallelujah!

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What the literal crap? There haven't been any previews? Did they even tell Arcane Duels about any of these sets?

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Quote from: exid on July 29, 2018, 02:05:14 AM

here it is:
(all the "Fs" mean that the rule was aproved on the Forum)

RULES

    1. Attack modifier : if a modifier that applies only to the first attack of an attack action is mooved to another object after the first attack and mooved back, it will apply again. (F)
    2. Befor or after an action phase : events that take place during these periods can occure in any order (c.f. Initiative). (F)
    3. Burn : does flame damages. (F)
    4. Caster : when a card or rule refers to the "caster" it is the object that casted the spell, but "you" is the mage (the caster's controler if it is not a mage). (F)
    5. Conditions : if a creature recieves a condition that should be processed or removed at the end of its action phase during its action phase, it will be processed or removed at the end of its next action phase. (F)
    6. Damages : to recieve or deal 0 damage is not recieve or deale damage. (F)
    7. Duplicates : you can't have more than one copy of an object attached to the same thing. (F)
    8. Enchantments: hidden enchantments have no trait (exceptions : cantrip, decoy). (F)
    9. Formation :
        ◦ both effects are only in the zone. (F)
        ◦ second effect can be used only once per trigger. (F)
    10. Imunity : a creature can't intercept an attack it is imune to. (F)
    11. Imunity : a creature can't melee attack in a zone if all guards are imune to its attack (except if it is elusive). (F)
    12. Incapacitate : if a creature becomes incapacitate after the declare attack step, the attack stops. (house rule)
    13. Initiative : (F)
        ◦ The player with initiative goes first if both players want to act simultaneously.
        ◦ The order of resolution of simultaneous effects from the same cause is choosed by the controler of the cause.
        ◦ Special upkeep: during the upkeep it's the controler of the objects affected who chooses the order of the effects.
        ◦ Problem : if the normal rules don't solve the timing issue, the player with initiative chooses who plays.
            ▪ For example, during upkeep, if an object A, that should be destructed during upkeep, affects an opponent's object B. The player with initiative can choose A's controler (who must destroy A without effect) or B's controler (who must resolve A's effect on B befor A is destroyed).
            ▪ For example, during upkeep, if an effect on object A affects an opponent's object B too. The player with initiative can choose A's controler (who can resolve the effect on A, what forces B to resolve it simultaneously) or B's controler (who can resolve another effect befor A's controler forces him to resolvee the first effect).
    14. Intercept : the interceptor becomes the target. (F)
    15. Intercept : a creature can't intercept an attack that tagets it. (F)
    16. Mage's ability counter : If the object's controler changes, the abilty's doesn't (F):
    • Pet receives +1 Melee with his first controler
    • Bloodreaper is able to heal his first controler
    • Eternal Servant can be reanimated by his first controler
    • Holy Avenger gets bonus for the creatures and holy conjurations friendly to his first controler
    • Bonded tree is still bonded to his first controler
    • Veterans continue as usual
    • Runes : Fortification and Precision go with the object // Power, and Shielding are useless // Reforging is bound to the owner
      ERRATA : if the equipment is stolen, the rune stays on it but has no effect for other controlers (house rull)
    17. Numbers : negative numbers don't exist. (F)
    18. Reach : reach doesn't affect flying creatures (except with sweeping: a flying creature with a reach + sweeping attack can attack a flying and a non flying creature in the same attack action). (F)
    19. Spell level: a "3x & 2y" spell is a level 5 spell of school x and a level 5 spell of school y, but a mage trained up to level n in school x will pay the x level simple when building if [x level]<=n. (F)
    20. Spellbind : when changing the bound spell, you can take another card of the same spell but not the same card. (F)
       ERRATA when the spell is cast, it's discarded (house rule)
       ERRATA a new spell can be bound during planning (house rule)
    21. Trample : a trample attack is « a contact attac but no melee attack », many situations must be   decided.
        ◦ Elusive creatures can't ignore guards when trample (F)
        ◦ ERRATA Flying creatures loose flying during trample (house rule)
        ◦ +x/-x melee don't affect trample (F)
        ◦ ERRATA a defense that doesn't affect melee doesn't affect trample (house rule)
    22. If 2 effects trigger on the same condition, both resolve. (house rule)
    23. V'Tar orbs : when an orb is turned on by a mage who is part of a team, this mage gaines the "residual" mana or healing. (F)
    24. V'Tar orbs - Faulty Orbs variant : the orbs are turned on by controling the zone too. (F)
    25. Walls : walls are at range 0 and at range 1 from an adjacent zone. Adjacent zones are at range 1 from the wall. (F)
    26. Walls : walls of a certain type affect objects imune to this type in matter of LOS and passage block. (F)

CARDS

    1. Arcane ward : triggers during the declare step. (F)
    2. Enchantment transfusion : there must be LOS from the ET to the new target of the enchantment. (F)
    3. Flank attack : the piercing bonus is only for one attack (not for the whole attack action). (F)
    4. Forcefield : counters a damage barrier. (F)
    5. Force orb / sword : isn't affected by conditions, or incapacitated or restrained. (F)
    6. Gurmash : uses warlord's orders as he would have the same text on his card. (house rule)
    7. Izimbila : has the subtype befor casted. (F)
    8. Joined strength : the damage's source doesn't change. (F)
    9. Mana prism : the loss can be caused directly by the spell or ability, or by an upkeep cost or a mana drain/transfer effect caused by the spell or ability. (F)
    10. ERRATA Quicksand : can't target uncontainable creatures. (F)
    11. Reverse attack : the reversed attack can't be avoided. (F)
    12. Reverse magic : the reversed spell can be countered (but the countering is non-mandatory for a nulify). (F)
    13. Seedlingpod : is sacrificied as part of the casting of the spell. (F)
    14. ERRATA Steep hill : cuts LoS that goes accros his zone diagonally. (house rull)


(and I should add, that we announce our mages before building)

I gotta say this is great work. Thanks for putting the time to get a comprehensive list like this. I think there are a few things to still be added.

Should I quote that post in the original post?

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okay, so after reading a few more comments i've somewhat changed my mind about card errata. we probably don't need any errata for broken cards at the present time, just for cards that are worded badly or break rules as intended, or which are worded confusingly and need to be made more clear.

The game might be more fun and diverse with single purpose wands instead of mage wands/elemental wands, but i'm not sure that's actually necessary for game balance, so that idea's not a good one right now. We don't need to get rid of spellbind.

As for the druid being nigh unkillable without killing her tree, i suppose that one way to think of it is that the druid's tree is like a part of her mage abilities which doesn't become active until after the game starts and she spends mana and actions on it. if you think of the druid as a 34 life 10 channeling mage, and the tree as a 9 mana spawnpoint with 1 channeling and regen 2 and the ability to transfer damage to the controlling mage to make it more surivvable.... barkskin compensates for this, but barkskin has upkeep +2. so basically if your running a druid with a vine tree bonded thats' 34 life and 10 channeling on your mage, minus 10 starting mana and one quick action, and if opponent starts attacking tree and the tree needs to transfer damage to mage, barkskin is needed to compensate for that, which has upkeep 2 so thats like lowering druid down to 8 channeling effectively
So basically, the druid actually starts the game off at a mana and action disadvantage. She isn't overpowered, but maybe it would be a good idea to start attacking the tree sooner even if you don't expect to destroy it. the damage will be transferred to mage, then if she puts barkskin on it will be easier to gain a mana advantage on her until she removes it, which may give you more time to setup on her.

Druid doesn't need changing. Bloodwave Warlord is abysmal, but AW has decided to not errata it. so it stays as crap - the time to change it was before Academy Warlord - I argued some of those effects should have been errata on BW. Having not done that, the time is passed, leave it. The others are are minor rules clarifications about edge cases or rules lawyering which I'll warrant has never come up in a real game.

The only exception is DoR. DoR was fine in playtest, but Bryan Pope changed before printing (never shown to the playtesters) which made it a bit better in Academy, but he didn't realise broke it in Arena, but was spotted in teh first week of it's release. AW agreed that errata was needed, and were going to release it, but just haven't done it for 18 months. They even asked the playtesters not to play the DoR book at a big tournament at one point.

What's DOR again? I forget.

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Quote from: DevilsVendetta on July 28, 2018, 06:34:36 PM

And again, there's no spell with range 4 so it doesn't even matter if you can see from G into C.

You are correct. There is no range 4 card. However Malakai's Basilica, Straywood Scout and most importantly Vine Tree require line of sight to use their infinite range abilities. I wouldn't call it a huge problem, but it will save the casuals from the rules lawyer spikes that wreck every game.

Hear Hear! Sometimes it takes rules lawyering outside the game to prevent rules lawyering during a game.

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Is it usefull that I post here the "rules supplement supplement" we use in my group (about 40 points we clarified from what we read here, our discussions, our preferences, etc.)?

Maybe. They might include some good suggestions. I would want to see it though. Ultimately I'm hoping any changes or additions we make are sound enough that Arcane Duels will add them to the admw rules. Otherwise we'd be unnecessarily fracturing the community.

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In YOUR opinion, the Druid is broken. Let's not say ALL experienced players think it is.

One of the problems this game faces is that a lot of times people don't recognize when a card is broken because of the spell point system. The spell point system makes it so that imbalances tend to impact spellbook building rather than affecting gameplay directly. If you have to overspend spell points to prepare your non-druid spellbook to be viable against druid you'll be at a significant disadvantage to non-druid spellbooks that don't overspend spell points on preparing for the druid matchup. But some players don't see that because they think "well the druid isn't unbeatable, a skilled player with a good deck can beat her" and miss the bigger picture regarding spell point imbalances.

I've said it a gazillion times: this is mage wars. Not magic the gathering. The criteria youre using to determine whether a card is broken or not does not apply here, it applies there.

This is like the old wizard all over again.

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