Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Rules Discussion => Topic started by: exid on April 19, 2016, 02:01:40 AM
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they will be destroyed by "any amount of damages".
is 0 damage enough (a hitting attack)?
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historically, no, you need to do 1+ damage
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is it written somewhere?
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is it written somewhere?
We followed the same logic for waking a creature from the Sleep condition. A hit is not enough. It requires at least one point of damage be taken to cause the effect.
I don't recall if this principle was listed in the rules or supplement.
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for the next version of the supplement! ;)
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Vine Markers (Game Marker)
Vine markers are a Living conjuration with 1 life, no armor, and they cannot gain armor. Vine markers hinder enemy non-Flying creatures. Any amount of damage will destroy a Vine Marker, regardless of its total life. They can’t be targeted by ranged attacks. Any number of Vine markers can occupy a zone.
As the Druid, or a familiar or tree spawnpoint she controls, casts a vine spell, you can destroy a target Vine marker she controls as an additional cost to cast that spell. If you do, you may ignore the range of that spell to target that Vine marker’s zone, an object in that Vine marker’s zone, or a border of that Vine marker’s zone. That vine spell must have a legal target. If two or more Druids are playing, each should use a different side of the Vine marker to distinguish ownership.
That should answer any questions.....
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It has to be a positive number to deal damage.
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Vine Markers (Game Marker)
Vine markers are a Living conjuration with 1 life, no armor, and they cannot gain armor. Vine markers hinder enemy non-Flying creatures. Any amount of damage will destroy a Vine Marker, regardless of its total life. They can’t be targeted by ranged attacks. Any number of Vine markers can occupy a zone.
As the Druid, or a familiar or tree spawnpoint she controls, casts a vine spell, you can destroy a target Vine marker she controls as an additional cost to cast that spell. If you do, you may ignore the range of that spell to target that Vine marker’s zone, an object in that Vine marker’s zone, or a border of that Vine marker’s zone. That vine spell must have a legal target. If two or more Druids are playing, each should use a different side of the Vine marker to distinguish ownership.
That should answer any questions.....
that answers the question: "does Exid know how to read?"...
sorry...
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It has to be a positive number to deal damage.
mathematically, 0 is positive ;D
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It has to be a positive number to deal damage.
mathematically, 0 is positive ;D
I'm not going to argue the positivity or negativity of zero, but will note that in many board and miniature games, "any amount of damage" includes 0. In the next rules & codex update, I'd recommend changing that sentence to "Any non-zero amount of damage will destroy a Vine Marker..."
(I'm assuming there will never be a way to deal a negative amount of damage in Mage Wars...)
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It has to be a positive number to deal damage.
mathematically, 0 is positive ;D
I'm not going to argue the positivity or negativity of zero, but will note that in many board and miniature games, "any amount of damage" includes 0. In the next rules & codex update, I'd recommend changing that sentence to "Any non-zero amount of damage will destroy a Vine Marker..."
(I'm assuming there will never be a way to deal a negative amount of damage in Mage Wars...)
i'm sure 0 is positive and negative (but not "strictly" positive and not strictly" negative).
but with Sike's post above the rules are perfectly clear on this point.
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(I'm assuming there will never be a way to deal a negative amount of damage in Mage Wars...)
Is that not healing? ;D
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The reason we don't need any more clarity in the rules is because of how mage wars defines damage. You only take damage when damage actually gets applied. If you didn't apply any damage tokens or mark it on your status board, then you didn't take any. 0 damage is the same as no damage. Saying that you take damage when you don't take damage makes no sense and shouldn't be something we need to clarify.
So yes you can hit a vine marker with a zero damage attack, but hitting it doesn't destroy it. Dealing damage does. What the rules are saying with "any amount of damage" is that you can't really increase its life above 1, because 1 damage will still kill it. But you still have to do that one damage to it to kill it. Now, if there was a way to give it armor, that could help keep it alive.
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The reason we don't need any more clarity in the rules is because of how mage wars defines damage. You only take damage when damage actually gets applied. If you didn't apply any damage tokens or mark it on your status board, then you didn't take any. 0 damage is the same as no damage. Saying that you take damage when you don't take damage makes no sense and shouldn't be something we need to clarify.
So yes you can hit a vine marker with a zero damage attack, but hitting it doesn't destroy it. Dealing damage does. What the rules are saying with "any amount of damage" is that you can't really increase its life above 1, because 1 damage will still kill it. But you still have to do that one damage to it to kill it. Now, if there was a way to give it armor, that could help keep it alive.
I vaguely recall (and am too lazy/busy to look it up right now) that an attack "hits" if it is not avoided in the Avoid Attack step, even if it rolls all blanks or deals no damage (due to armor for example). Has this changed? And while the vine marker rules don't use the term "if the attack hits" but rather "any damage", it's still a little vague, since "any" usually includes "0" as long as an attack "hit".
If you're familiar with X-wing miniatures, it's kind of like how Lt Blount can "hit" even if he doesn't deal damage, and a "hit" can strip a Stealth Device even if no damage is dealt (and a lack of a "hit" won't strip a Stealth Device, even if damage was dealt in some other way), and various other effects trigger on "hit" while others trigger on "damage" and these things are not the same; in fact, several secondary weapons say something like "if this attack hits, cancel all dice and [do something]." Similarly, a "hit" and "damage" are not the same in Mage Wars, and whether or not "any damage" includes 0 or not should be defined somewhere.
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Hit and damage are different things in mage wars. You can hit and deal no damage. However you can not deal damage and deal no damage.
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I wish to apologize if my previous answer was short or rude, I was a bit rushed. Page 25 of the rules may be the closest thing to what you're wanting. There it says explicitly that zero damage is the same as no damage, i.e. it is not damage. It also says how your total dice roll needs to be higher than zero for you to deal damage. However, I think page 14 may be more important to the discussion where it discusses the difference between life and damage. This is because we need to remember that damage isn't just something that happens in mage wars. It's actually a stat all its own that is tracked separately from life. Taking damage literally means increasing your damage stat in mage wars. If you didn't increase this stat, you didn't take damage. Plain and simple.
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Hence the difference between a "hit" and "damage". You can hit something and not damage them, but with attacks if you damage something, you had to of hit them in the first place.