Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Events => Topic started by: silverclawgrizzly on August 31, 2016, 12:16:16 PM
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All right Mage Warriors I'm opening up the flood gates for ideas on how to make the Gen Con 2017 tournament event better than this years. While I actually consider this year a success I'm always thinking of ways to improve. One thing I'm thinking is to limit the entries to 16 and thus create a 4 round first day event. That reduces an hour and 15 minutes from the overall invested time you need to play through and is more appealing to many I know.
Prize support will remain excellent next year and will most likely even improve over this years. Food and beverages will be served again next year as well.
Any other ideas, particularly coming from those who have actually run their own events or were in this years tournament, are welcome to be discussed in a civil manner.
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What if 30 people really do want to sign up? I think we need some sort of preliminaries outside of the main tournament. I would recommend using octgn for preliminaries except that not everyone uses octgn. Maybe we can have everyone arrive early and host preliminaries in a hotel or something? Or maybe some kind of combination of the two.
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If you get to 32 people you just create two 16-player groups with the winners of both groups playing the SuperBowl ;)
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If you get to 32 people you just create two 16-player groups with the winners of both groups playing the SuperBowl ;)
Limited table space.
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Do to the nature of Gen Con preliminaries will not be an option. Players already dedicate two game spaces of very valuable time to this event. Asking them to dedicate more is counter productive. Also this event does not have qualifiers of any kind. To do so would exclude new players who wish to enter simply to test themselves and get better.
The main turn off factor is the time factor. Now I know I can't shorten the round time limits but by capping at 16 I can decrease the overall investment. Keep the ideas coming.
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I would like 100+ particispants and an event running from Thursday to Sunday :)
Could you run 4 different heats on day 1? With 1 qualifier from each heat, and then allow people to play as many heats as they want to.
I would love if you could open say heat A, B and C for coaching newbies then let them enter a later heat if they want to.
Do what they did in Germany.
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I would like 100+ particispants and an event running from Thursday to Sunday :)
Could you run 4 different heats on day 1? With 1 qualifier from each heat, and then allow people to play as many heats as they want to.
I would love if you could open say heat A, B and C for coaching newbies then let them enter a later heat if they want to.
Do what they did in Germany.
What format did they use in Germany?
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I want an Academy scavenger hunt! Everyone registers a custom Academy spellbook, and then they have to find and defeat a certain number of each Academy mage then go to the Arcane Wonders booth to get a prize.
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On the whole we don't want to take up more time from people. Gen Con is not Europe and the fan base that's over seas just isn't at Gen Con. It could be built up, but it's not there yet. Asking for a four day commitment wouldn't be practical at this point.
Also lets focus on the tournament event itself. An Academy scavenger hunt should maybe be it's own thread?
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On the whole we don't want to take up more time from people. Gen Con is not Europe and the fan base that's over seas just isn't at Gen Con. It could be built up, but it's not there yet. Asking for a four day commitment wouldn't be practical at this point.
Also lets focus on the tournament event itself. An Academy scavenger hunt should maybe be it's own thread?
It might help us to focus our ideas if you summarized the set of constraints you see at Gen Con. Many of us have never been there and don't know the design constraints you have. Also, what outcome are you looking to improve next year? If this is fixed in your mind, then we can focus our ideas to identify options for you.
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Well there's a fair and valid point. My goals for Gen Con 2017 in no real order
1. In crease attendance. While I was happy with 12 I'd like to bump it to 16 next year. Now obviously we can't control the chaotic nature of the con but we can do our best.
2. I'd like a fun and competitive atmosphere that's balanced with welcoming new players. Contradictory goals somewhat but I believe a balance can be found.
3. I wish for this event to strengthen and grow the Mage Wars community. Overall I think it does that to some extent as the books are published and matches taped. If we can expand on this that's cool.
4. I'm always interested in ideas for prize Support.
Now obstacles:
1. Space is a premium at Gen Con and it ain't cheap. I'm in no position to speak on that at all. However more casual play can and will be planned next year.
2. Big con with a lot going on. We compete with every other game ever thought of as well as lots of special events. Now with more expansions comes more appeal so that helps. A lot more options of play will be available next year.
I do want to say I appreciate the ideas so far. Even if it seems like I don't agree I still need to consider more angles so keep em coming.
2.
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Not for nothing Griz, but increasing attendance and capping play at 16 seem counter intuitive. I know you got 12 this year but last year was much bigger no? I know it's my absolute dream to compete at gencon, and i would be devastated if i managed by some miracle to get there, only to be turned away because i was number 17.
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Last year was actually 17. I get the counter productivity and I fully admit the 16 cap isn't likely. It's an idea however. Gotta figure out more of em :)
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I think the main problem with mage wars organized play at cons is insufficient time and space. We always end up needing to try to compensate for this with weird rules that mess with the metagame, like the 75 min time limit. There is currently no way to make a tournament truly and adequately meet all three goals within the kind of time and space constraints that are typical at gen con and other such cons. You might be able to meet two out of three of those goals, but not all three at once. At least one of the three goals needs to be given up to meet one or more of the others.
I would say to prioritize goal 3 first and foremost. Spreading the game will make it easier for Arcane Wonders to afford more time and space for their events, and it will give us more people to play against.
After goal 3, the next most important is goal 2. However, I propose that casual play be promoted more for newer players. We should encourage players to play casually and get some experience before they participate in big high level tournaments. I would say someone should have played *at least* five full games of Arena before they participate in a high level Arena tournament.
I mean, when someone goes to register for the tournament, you can ask "Have you played a full game of Mage Wars Arena at least five times before?" and if they say "no" then you say they can still enter the tournament if they want to but that you recommend that they play the game a bit more first. This should lower the number of newbs clogging up high level tournament play.
As for goal 1, I think it is important to increase *attendance* not necessarily tournament participation.
What we'll need is to get a decently sized space for people to play casually and get help with spellbook design, then get some good coverage for the tournament proper, and encourage new mage wars players to watch, and give out a prize to new players for spectating--maybe a promo card, or coupons for mage wars merchandise or something.
Thoughts?
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I agree with you most of the way here Sailor. I'm personally a huge fan of time limits as I 1. Don't see them taking away from meta that much and 2. Have no desire to sit and judge 5 rounds of 5 hour matches.....:)
I'm going to chew on this for a bit, think it over at work today, and get back with my full response but just wanted to mention that I like how you're thinking on this man.
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Living in Germany I Never was at gencon nor will be.
But from a distance it seems your goals are contraproductive.
- You want to grow from 12 but think about a cut at 16.
- you want the bar low so new players can test and improve. But on the other hand the contests is handled as Nonplusultra competition of high standard here in this forum. So you have pros and beginners in 16...
- you say time at the exhibition is precious. What “income“ do you want to get from that invest? Direct or indirect.
I think you have to declare a goal for AW in order to plan the event leading to that.
- if you want to reach the competitive world you should for example run a high quality worldclass competition with a good stream. Plan how to get this spreaded and reach new customers there. Prequalifiers no problem.
- or maybe you want to have the most interesting event of gencon for all people passing by. Then you will need a low entry and cool prices. Also a price for best costume or whatever gets people attracted.
- or you want tons of players. Invest more, rent more space, make it huge (make advertisements) and get those. Done right this more expensive rent will pay out in no time!
So what is your purpose?
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I've already stated that much of my goals counter each other but I believe some middle ground can be found. Most likely the day of the event itself. One thing of note that's important: I am not an employee of Arcane Wonders. I can't speak for them or their goals. I'm just the guy who's run their Gen Con tournament the past couple of years and who's on tap to do it again. That said my goal is to find that middle ground I spoke of. Fun AND Competitive. Growing AND Approachable. I don't expect the 16 cap to actually be a thing but I also recognize the more people then the longer the event and the more a turn off it becomes. Sort of a goofy paradox there.
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I've already stated that much of my goals counter each other but I believe some middle ground can be found. Most likely the day of the event itself. One thing of note that's important: I am not an employee of Arcane Wonders. I can't speak for them or their goals. I'm just the guy who's run their Gen Con tournament the past couple of years and who's on tap to do it again. That said my goal is to find that middle ground I spoke of. Fun AND Competitive. Growing AND Approachable. I don't expect the 16 cap to actually be a thing but I also recognize the more people then the longer the event and the more a turn off it becomes. Sort of a goofy paradox there.
I didn't know that you are no employee of AW. It changes the situation a lot. I was just thinking “what would I do?“ finding myself asking those questions. But obviously from a company point of view.
I guess you are limited in many ways. Amount of tables, time per game, general opening time.. By keeping it open to visitors you can't preorganize a lot but timeslots. So a limit of contestants that will get filled for sure guarantees a running competition without missing players and might not be a bad idea.
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I get that a lot lol. Nope just an ambassador they like to have at con.
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As Chef stated, my point of view on GenCon is that it is a SuperBowl of Mage Wars. Each year, best of the best are clashing against each other, bringing something cool or new or old... (Aviary, Jinx, Meditating Graveyard).
I think the only way how solve the riddle of combining Fire (Pros) and Water (not Pros) is not try combine it at all. Lets just have Tourney with big T and then "welcome to Fun land" tourney. If you participate, there will be lottery at the end with a chance to win a X, where X is anything what Arcane Wonders have and would like to donate :)
Most people i know would probably back off if i tell them, hey, lets do this tourney but expect to met guys that are playing MW for 5 years, are best of the best and their middle names are "Calculator", "Dice Crusher" or "Lucky" :) Only a few will say "I will gladly accept this challange" and then "eye of the tiger" starts :)
With both torneys running at the same time, (i know, hard to manage) players from "easy" tourney will probably set next to players from "Hardcore" and probably realize, how nice those players actually are. This could lead for bigger attendance year after.
Just thinking aloud :)
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I don't like the idea of separating players by skill level and running different events. Day two does that already :) I like the idea of scheduled casual stuff but not during the tournament time.
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Even if based on the assumption that you were working for AW, Bigfatchef's points are very valid. If GENCON tournament is meant to be the biggest and the greatest tournament (as we all assume), I think that the tournament should be defined and have concrete objectives. These should be defined by AW. I know, we are always asking more and more from this little company, but we just love the game so much that cannot do otherwise!
Based on the tournaments organized by other games and publishers that I have liked:
-Tournaments are part of a continuum. Normally organized with full involvement of the publisher. (assumption- for the case in point I understand there is limited involvement of AW).
-There is expectation created by announcements in the communities, new expansions coming out, the meta changes right on time just to make everybody doubt about what type of play can win, possibilities to get byes at regional tournaments (if possible), podcasts talking about it, interviews with the publisher talking about it on youtube, the prize pool is announced in full.
-Then, the tournament takes place. Normally the publisher plans it and estimates de number of seats they need and prepares for that. If someone signs in late, then there is a waiting list just in case. But the tournament is manageable because estimates are more or less accurate (if you practice, you can only get better at it!).
-After the tournament there is some media coverage by podcasters or youtubers, analysis, and fans replicate what the top 4 did (just for fun), and players know what to expect in terms of expansions and the next tournament the following year.
In a nutshell, I think that one can notice a big difference between those tournaments that count with full involvement of the publisher and those that do not. It would be great to have THE OFFICIAL tournament of MW at Gencon, or somewhere else (less expensive?).
At the end of the day, considering the time that the game takes, and the nature of our community (small but passionate), I cannot see an added value of organizing this at Gencon. Visibility is important, but there are many ways of achieving that.
And here is the main idea that I would like Silverclaw, Aaron and AW to think about:
If less money would go to rental of space at Gencon and more resources would go to create hype in the community and to PROMOTE the OFFICIAL tournament, it would be a good opportunity for fun and for business. There could be several alternatives and options to go around this. Of course, if you increase the level of resources for this tournament, you can always do it at gencon, but the promotion factor cannot be absent (as part of a continuum). With more promotion, I think the organizers (silverclaw, etc) would be able to do even a greater job.
I hope this helps. :)
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You might want to rethink the whole "Superbowl" structure.
With 16 players you only need 4 matches to get a winner and with 32 players you only need 5 matches.
Id like to see a seeding system of some kind to try and get player of near equal skill meeting each other.
Ask players how many games of Mage Wars they have played, and use that as ranking.
With 32 players:
Rank 1 vs Rank 16 , Rank 2 vs Rank 17 etc.
You might try to protect and teach any players with none or little Mage Wars games under their belt and let them play a couple of games vs each other before they enter the "veteran" group.
Lets say you have 28 people who are "Vets" and 4 rookies:
1 vs 15 etc, 29 vs 30 and 31 vs 32 - and put them back in they main tourney with their scores after 2 rounds.
That´s all of your goals is´nt it? And it leaves a whole day to ? :)
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Now I'll note at least in the past two years rookies have made up a small number of players. We had I'd say 4 out of 17 last year and 1- 2 out of 12 this year.
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I would say most rookies are too shy to compete in a high-class-superbowl. Why should they? They will get smashed hard without having any chance or real fun!
To get rookies hooked this is definitely the wrong way to go.
Besides that I think 12 or even 16 is a small number of players. 16 real good worldclass players on the other hand are a lot.
As arixiducs said, I think AW has to be asked for support to push the event to a official and solid tournament. Pre-rounds before con if necessary and maybe Wildcards for best rookies from rookie-tournament. Also maybe some invitation for the 2 best oversea players to get it even more international. Just random ideas!
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Well there's a fair and valid point. My goals for Gen Con 2017 in no real order
1. In crease attendance. While I was happy with 12 I'd like to bump it to 16 next year. Now obviously we can't control the chaotic nature of the con but we can do our best.
2. I'd like a fun and competitive atmosphere that's balanced with welcoming new players. Contradictory goals somewhat but I believe a balance can be found.
3. I wish for this event to strengthen and grow the Mage Wars community. Overall I think it does that to some extent as the books are published and matches taped. If we can expand on this that's cool.
4. I'm always interested in ideas for prize Support.
Now obstacles:
1. Space is a premium at Gen Con and it ain't cheap. I'm in no position to speak on that at all. However more casual play can and will be planned next year.
2. Big con with a lot going on. We compete with every other game ever thought of as well as lots of special events. Now with more expansions comes more appeal so that helps. A lot more options of play will be available next year.
I do want to say I appreciate the ideas so far. Even if it seems like I don't agree I still need to consider more angles so keep em coming.
2.
Tom's General Observation about Tournaments - The business model for Mage Wars is not the same as MTG or other CCG/Dicemaster collectibles so comparing tournament formats and prizes between the different approaches will not always help us attract more players to tournament play. In general this reality leads to tournament sizes for Mage Wars that are smaller than other types of games where tournaments are an integrated part of the player/game store or convention/publisher experience. I see this as part of the overall tournament environment for this type of game and one the tournament director has little control over. With that assumption aside here are some suggestions I have to help you reach your goals.
Goal 4 - If we had a unique prize that players valued it might help attract more players to tournaments. It should be integral to game play so it has value to players after the tournament. For example, Arcane Wonders could produce custom prize Spellbooks that have unique leather covers or other materials that differentiate it from standard Spellbooks. These would only be available to tournament winners. In this way the players who win tournaments can use these spellbooks in their own matches and travels so it has special value after the tournament. Obviously this has a cost associated with it, but the cost can be spread out over several years since one print run can last for many years if the product quality is high. Since the spellbook is an integral part of game play this type of product/prize will always have an intrinsic value to the game and player.
Goal 1 – The largest barrier to mage wars players attending GENCON is the cost in airfare, room and time from work. Therefore, a focused marketing campaign to the cities within driving distance would have the best result of increasing players at this event. You might try advertising/promoting the tournament at local game stores within a certain radius of the event location. This would start several months before and include multiple communication pieces to get the message out. Another target audience would be game clubs within a certain radius. To maximize this effect you could coordinate with local Ambassadors to run demo/teaching events at key geographic locations that prepare new players for the first round tournament rules and game play in advance of the GENCON event. This gives players a chance to ‘try before they buy’ and decide if the game is worth investing their time.
If the tournament requires pre-registration to meet GENCON rules, then attracting new players during the convention is not possible. However, if GENCON attendees can arrive at the convention and select tournaments during the convention, then this provides an opportunity to get your message out to this target audience a few days before your tournament starts. At WBC, I use this type of approach when I run the 4 days of demos before the first tournament round. Each demo is designed to teach the Round 1 tournament rules (i.e. Apprentice Mode) so players learn what to expect before entering the tournament. It also gives them multiple learning opportunities by attending more than one demo and playing with a different mage each time.
Goal 2 – Here is the format I am moving towards at WBC to meet this goal myself. You might be able to adapt it to include new and experienced players in a competitive way. I imagine the GENCON space limitations, etc. would require some changes and you will want to modify it to fit your style. Note - 4 days of demos are used to teach the game using Round 1 tournament rules only.
The tournament format uses Round 1 for players to compete using Core Set Apprentice rules and then advances the top X players to Round 2. In Round 2 the advanced rules are used and you need to decide which expansions if any are allowed (we currently use Core Set only to keep it simple). Experienced players enter the tournament in Round 2 and are combined with the top players from Round 1. One challenge you will have is that new players will often not have a copy of the game/expansions so you will need to supply them with prepared spellbooks to use. At WBC I offer a spellbook design session between Round 1 and 2 to help new players learn the advanced rules, but in the past I have limited Round 2 to 8 players. The combination of players with copies of the game and the extras that I bring has allowed this to work. Going forward I may need to add Core Set to my resources to handle 8 players myself since I don’t have a sales booth for new players. I want to add 8 new players each year plus experience players who sign up. Essentially, all experienced players including graduates from previous years are given a bye in Round 1 and only attend Round 2.
This approach essentially uses the Demo - Round 1 - Round 2 format to lead new players through the learning experience in increments while experienced players can skip the Demos and Round 1.
Good luck!
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The following idea may be terrible. Proceed with critical consideration.
Invitational?
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The following idea may be terrible. Proceed with critical consideration.
Invitational?
How do you determine who gets invited?
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I am going to throw out some ideas please don't bash if they are aweful. I'm coming from a total outsider looking in who just a fan of the game. I Have never attended a Mage wars tournament or attended Gen con. Just a Mage wars fan who reads the forums a lot and would want to attend these things in the future.
I like the idea of customized spell books as prizes. Making them really unique. It would really be an awesome accessary, I think I like this better than a trophy
As far as player amount being limited. I agree this does not broaden the scope of what you want for growth. It would be a different story if there is 30+ competing players, but it has not gotten to those high numbers from what I have read.
If you want it at Gen con Maybe just more support with more judges/ more support or dare I say a different venue to crown a champion.
Maybe Gen Con is a place to bring in new players and not even have a tournament. Maybe having an official tournament at another location, place, and or time?
what I heard or read of gen con is this awesome amazing experience with tons of things to do. So I imagine this convention provides a lot of distractions and competition that turns others away from really long tournaments. So having tables open for Mage wars would be helpful to new players, would be more beneficial to the community for growing, and expanding than having a tournament.
Again I would love to attend gen con and the gen con Mage wars tournament but feel maybe for the growth of this game maybe it's better to treat it as a training ground or Mage Wars boot camp.
Well there's a fair and valid point. My goals for Gen Con 2017 in no real order
1. In crease attendance. While I was happy with 12 I'd like to bump it to 16 next year. Now obviously we can't control the chaotic nature of the con but we can do our best.
2. I'd like a fun and competitive atmosphere that's balanced with welcoming new players. Contradictory goals somewhat but I believe a balance can be found.
3. I wish for this event to strengthen and grow the Mage Wars community. Overall I think it does that to some extent as the books are published and matches taped. If we can expand on this that's cool.
4. I'm always interested in ideas for prize Support.
Now obstacles:
1. Space is a premium at Gen Con and it ain't cheap. I'm in no position to speak on that at all. However more casual play can and will be planned next year.
2. Big con with a lot going on. We compete with every other game ever thought of as well as lots of special events. Now with more expansions comes more appeal so that helps. A lot more options of play will be available next year.
I do want to say I appreciate the ideas so far. Even if it seems like I don't agree I still need to consider more angles so keep em coming.
2.
Tom's General Observation about Tournaments - The business model for Mage Wars is not the same as MTG or other CCG/Dicemaster collectibles so comparing tournament formats and prizes between the different approaches will not always help us attract more players to tournament play. In general this reality leads to tournament sizes for Mage Wars that are smaller than other types of games where tournaments are an integrated part of the player/game store or convention/publisher experience. I see this as part of the overall tournament environment for this type of game and one the tournament director has little control over. With that assumption aside here are some suggestions I have to help you reach your goals.
Goal 4 - If we had a unique prize that players valued it might help attract more players to tournaments. It should be integral to game play so it has value to players after the tournament. For example, Arcane Wonders could produce custom prize Spellbooks that have unique leather covers or other materials that differentiate it from standard Spellbooks. These would only be available to tournament winners. In this way the players who win tournaments can use these spellbooks in their own matches and travels so it has special value after the tournament. Obviously this has a cost associated with it, but the cost can be spread out over several years since one print run can last for many years if the product quality is high. Since the spellbook is an integral part of game play this type of product/prize will always have an intrinsic value to the game and player.
Goal 1 – The largest barrier to mage wars players attending GENCON is the cost in airfare, room and time from work. Therefore, a focused marketing campaign to the cities within driving distance would have the best result of increasing players at this event. You might try advertising/promoting the tournament at local game stores within a certain radius of the event location. This would start several months before and include multiple communication pieces to get the message out. Another target audience would be game clubs within a certain radius. To maximize this effect you could coordinate with local Ambassadors to run demo/teaching events at key geographic locations that prepare new players for the first round tournament rules and game play in advance of the GENCON event. This gives players a chance to ‘try before they buy’ and decide if the game is worth investing their time.
If the tournament requires pre-registration to meet GENCON rules, then attracting new players during the convention is not possible. However, if GENCON attendees can arrive at the convention and select tournaments during the convention, then this provides an opportunity to get your message out to this target audience a few days before your tournament starts. At WBC, I use this type of approach when I run the 4 days of demos before the first tournament round. Each demo is designed to teach the Round 1 tournament rules (i.e. Apprentice Mode) so players learn what to expect before entering the tournament. It also gives them multiple learning opportunities by attending more than one demo and playing with a different mage each time.
Goal 2 – Here is the format I am moving towards at WBC to meet this goal myself. You might be able to adapt it to include new and experienced players in a competitive way. I imagine the GENCON space limitations, etc. would require some changes and you will want to modify it to fit your style. Note - 4 days of demos are used to teach the game using Round 1 tournament rules only.
The tournament format uses Round 1 for players to compete using Core Set Apprentice rules and then advances the top X players to Round 2. In Round 2 the advanced rules are used and you need to decide which expansions if any are allowed (we currently use Core Set only to keep it simple). Experienced players enter the tournament in Round 2 and are combined with the top players from Round 1. One challenge you will have is that new players will often not have a copy of the game/expansions so you will need to supply them with prepared spellbooks to use. At WBC I offer a spellbook design session between Round 1 and 2 to help new players learn the advanced rules, but in the past I have limited Round 2 to 8 players. The combination of players with copies of the game and the extras that I bring has allowed this to work. Going forward I may need to add Core Set to my resources to handle 8 players myself since I don’t have a sales booth for new players. I want to add 8 new players each year plus experience players who sign up. Essentially, all experienced players including graduates from previous years are given a bye in Round 1 and only attend Round 2.
This approach essentially uses the Demo - Round 1 - Round 2 format to lead new players through the learning experience in increments while experienced players can skip the Demos and Round 1.
Good luck!
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Well, that's one potential source of the terrible, isn't it?
Privious winners, people nominated by ambassadors, people doing good work in the Mage Wars community doing blogs, podcasts, set reviews, etc.
Just thinking that if the goal is to increase attention/attendance, one way to do that might be to increase the prestige of the event, and help build up community, too.
I mean, it's not like we'd need to be terribly exclusive, right? Anyone who really wanted into the tournament last year got in, it looks to me. Emailing AW and asking for an invite with a paragraph of "here's why you should totally invite me" would probably be enough?
[Disclaimer - I'm not angling to exclude anyone, and could not go myself.]
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Gen con is an exhibition. They had ever since been invdnted for helping companies or products to grow famous and sell well. It is their purpose.
If you take that environment and add those negative points that make a “worldcup“ difficult there (timetable, qualificationrounds, 1000 distractions...) you find your goal. You want a fun tournament with a very low entry and cool and unique prices.
Coming from sportsclimbing, we have our best results concerning amount and happiness of competitors when there is a lottery or sideranking (for best newbie or whatever) so that everybody could eventually win something.
If you want to have more people play the game, you have to get many people to try it (in a short time since the could get distracted away). In that short time you have to find a way to get the players hooked. Give them totally awsome themed books that are fun to play. Show whats possible.
As the tournament progresses all players should have a personal interest in how it went on (for example by putting them in makro-teams by training school. So they hope “team dark scool“ wind over “team nature“). Maybe connect small prices to this.
And the finals should be fighted with applause and action and entertainment. Think of it as a movie showdown.
All this can be down with very little money.
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I'm sold and totally agree. Like the idea of pre built books. I think demo for new players and a walking them through the basic 4 books from the original would be a good idea and have them play with semi skilled and helpful tournament players. If want this game to grow we need to be introducing this too as many people at gen con as possible. Not just making it about experienced players only. I think there is other venues that could facilitate this better for high level tournament play. And by no means am I saying it still does not have to have the epic skill level that it sounds like it already has. Just make it more attracting to new players. I think this post says it really well.
Gen con is an exhibition. They had ever since been invdnted for helping companies or products to grow famous and sell well. It is their purpose.
If you take that environment and add those negative points that make a “worldcup“ difficult there (timetable, qualificationrounds, 1000 distractions...) you find your goal. You want a fun tournament with a very low entry and cool and unique prices.
Coming from sportsclimbing, we have our best results concerning amount and happiness of competitors when there is a lottery or sideranking (for best newbie or whatever) so that everybody could eventually win something.
If you want to have more people play the game, you have to get many people to try it (in a short time since the could get distracted away). In that short time you have to find a way to get the players hooked. Give them totally awsome themed books that are fun to play. Show whats possible.
As the tournament progresses all players should have a personal interest in how it went on (for example by putting them in makro-teams by training school. So they hope “team dark scool“ wind over “team nature“). Maybe connect small prices to this.
And the finals should be fighted with applause and action and entertainment. Think of it as a movie showdown.
All this can be down with very little money.
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So, I agree with alot of the stuff that is being said in this thread. I however don't think that the amount of time hours/days is an issue. I know that myself and the rest of the playgroup from Saint Louis went to Gen Con specifically for Mage wars. We took 5 of the 12 seats this year and all of us would not be opposed to multiple arena tournaments or multiple days.
We would however be bothered if it went to an invitational type tournament as the Saint louis area only has 1 ambassador (myself). So I would need to Judge and therefore could not join and I do not think any of us could make it to pre-qualifiers too far outside our area.
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That's reasonable. I have to say, though, that one reason for an invitational would be that we have two apparently contradictory issues: a desire to increase the number of people in the tournament, and the incredible cost of actually doing so at Gencon. An invitational system that was working correctly would probably give very heavy weight to the fact that you're the ambassador from Saint Louis, the city that took 5 of the 12 seats this year.
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Invitational just isn't going to happen. It's impractical from a number of angles so I don't think we need worry about that. I'm liking the idea about the prize support though.
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Gen con is an exhibition. They had ever since been invdnted for helping companies or products to grow famous and sell well. It is their purpose.
If you take that environment and add those negative points that make a “worldcup“ difficult there (timetable, qualificationrounds, 1000 distractions...) you find your goal. You want a fun tournament with a very low entry and cool and unique prices.
Coming from sportsclimbing, we have our best results concerning amount and happiness of competitors when there is a lottery or sideranking (for best newbie or whatever) so that everybody could eventually win something.
If you want to have more people play the game, you have to get many people to try it (in a short time since the could get distracted away). In that short time you have to find a way to get the players hooked. Give them totally awsome themed books that are fun to play. Show whats possible.
As the tournament progresses all players should have a personal interest in how it went on (for example by putting them in makro-teams by training school. So they hope “team dark scool“ wind over “team nature“). Maybe connect small prices to this.
And the finals should be fighted with applause and action and entertainment. Think of it as a movie showdown.
All this can be down with very little money.
I totally agree. Gen Con is definitely far from being an optimal setting for a competitive Mage Wars event. I would recommend completely overhauling the structure of the event. Instead of a Mage Wars tournament, make it a Mage Wars carnival. I would recommend having tables divided into three "stations". One for Standard Arena, one for Arena Domination, and one for Academy. (Apprentice games would be played in the Standard Arena station or at the main exhibit booth). Players would be able to bring their own custom spellbooks or use premade ones available on site. Prizes would be awarded for things like "most formats played", "most domination games won", "most exciting game", "most skilled newbie", "most improved player", "most games won (regardless of format)", and even a prize just for participating. All the games would basically be exhibition games, although there would be judges at each station to answer any rules questions or disputes between players, and the results of each game would get recorded on a score-card/unlocked achievements-card for each player.
I think this would also successfully address all four of your goals for the event Silverclaw, despite technically not being a *tournament* per se.
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A lot of companies work around the time commitment by scheduling preliminaries Thursday to Saturday and the finals on Sunday. This let's people with other interests still participate and means people that have been eliminated can move on to other things without disrupting the tournament. Really keen players can sign up for all 3 days and others might only be able to fit in one round. You could have 4 rounds of 8 ( with a morning and evening in saturday) with top 2 each round advancing to a single elimination on Sunday.
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A high level tournament and getting more players into the game are too completely different events, run different ways, and targeting different players.
I'm unlikely to be at GenCon this year anyway, but certainly I'd consider travelling to GenCon just for the first, and wouldn't bother with the second even if I was there. You probably want events catering to both crowds, and design them very differently.
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A high level tournament and getting more players into the game are too completely different events, run different ways, and targeting different players.
I'm unlikely to be at GenCon this year anyway, but certainly I'd consider travelling to GenCon just for the first, and wouldn't bother with the second even if I was there. You probably want events catering to both crowds, and design them very differently.
I guess that must be why they stopped having official tournaments at origins. :/
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Pretty much just going with a straight bog standard tournament set up. Preliminaries on Friday and Finals Saturday. We'll work on making it more appealing and run it as smoothly as possible.
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This maybe be a terrible idea, or it could work great.
What about setting up laptops with Octgn, then have then use it.
Most could install Octgn and build a deck, then bring a flash drive if they don't have a laptop.If they can't, you can set a laptop aside just to build a deck, then use a flashdrive to transfer the deck to a open laptop.
Pro:
-Speed: Playing on Octgn seems to save between 25-33% time.
-Table space: A laptop takes a lot less table space.
-Moving Tables: Instead of having to move to a new table for each game, you can just login and play against your opponent. You could make general accounts that you can just upload your deck from a flash drive, if you did not bring your own laptop or you don't have a Octgn account.
-Larger number of players: you can enlarge the tournament, if you can find a way so each player only plays between 4-5 games.
-Possibility of opening up tournament to people in Europe.
Con:
-Can't see your opponent: Seeing you opponent usually gives a lot of clues to what he/she is thinking.
-Laptops: Bring that maybe old laptops + setup is going to be a pain.
-Electronics: There will ALWAYS be a problem!
-Stupid People: 10% of people are idiots!
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Con: It's the Gen Con tournament not an OCTGN tournament. We could just hold an online tournnament without having to drive to Indiana. :P
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Con: It's the Gen Con tournament not an OCTGN tournament. We could just hold an online tournnament without having to drive to Indiana. :P
I agree, it is a gen con tournament not an OCTGN tournament.
The reason I proposed this because I always wanted to go, but I live near the pacific. So I'm been scheming of ways to play against the guys at gen con.
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Fair and valid point :)
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Con: It's the Gen Con tournament not an OCTGN tournament. We could just hold an online tournnament without having to drive to Indiana. :P
I agree, it is a gen con tournament not an OCTGN tournament.
The reason I proposed this because I always wanted to go, but I live near the pacific. So I'm been scheming of ways to play against the guys at gen con.
^^This. Honestly I think the best solution to this is to use video chat and play Academy instead of Arena. Or just use video chat to talk to people there without playing any games with them. After all, if you could play in person without playing in person then it wouldn't be in person because hologram technology just isn't there yet. And nobody goes to a convention to play tapletop games on an online platform. If it's not face to face it's not happening.
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Actually my first year I saw this huge Heart Stone tournament and just sorta shook my head. I guess it takes all types and I'm not dishing on anyones gaming but hey man I drive to Indianapolis to fight in person lol.
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Pretty much just going with a straight bog standard tournament set up. Preliminaries on Friday and Finals Saturday. We'll work on making it more appealing and run it as smoothly as possible.
Any info on possible other casual events? Also if you moved it to a Saturday/Sunday you would likely have fewer competing events. Sunday is usually fairly sparse.
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No info at this time. I know a lot of casual play goes down all convention long though.
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Will there be anyone playing academy at Gen Con?
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Will there be anyone playing academy at Gen Con?
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I'll have a book or two. Usually I'm at the tables where the MW tournament takes place after tournament hours.
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Might try and do something with it and Domination. Set up a few games ahead of time.
I know Mace will have an Academy event and likely a Domination as well.
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Will there be anyone playing academy at Gen Con?
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I'll have a book or two. Usually I'm at the tables where the MW tournament takes place after tournament hours.
They will be custom spellbooks right?
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I am really looking forward to all of the casual mw games during the con.
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Let me go ahead and put my name as first on your dance card sir.
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confirmed. :)
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will you and your crew be coming in earlier than wednesday?
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Sadly not. It takes an act of extreme coordination to get half a dozen or so off work at once so we can carpool.