Arcane Wonders Forum

Mage Wars => Spellbook Design and Construction => Topic started by: chiller087 on September 26, 2014, 05:00:22 PM

Title: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: chiller087 on September 26, 2014, 05:00:22 PM
My wife and I are new to the game, just picked it up a little over a week ago.  I know FM isn't Tier 1 right now, nevertheless I want to make this the best that it can be.  Based on my scouring of different forums, here's what I've put together so far:

[spellbook]
[spellbookheader]
[spellbookname]Micah's FM[/spellbookname]
[mage]Forcemaster[/mage]
[/spellbookheader]
[spells]
[spellclass]Attack[/spellclass]
[mwcard=DNA01]2 x  Acid Ball[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWA02]2 x  Force Hammer[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Conjuration[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1j04]1 x  Battle Forge[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKJ01]1 x  Enchanter's Wardstone[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j08]1 x  Hand of Bim-Shalla[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j16]1 x  Mordok's Obelisk[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j21]1 x  Suppression Orb[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j09]1 x  Temple of the Dawnbreaker[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1w04]1 x  Wall of Thorns[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Enchantment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE02]1 x  Akiro's Favor[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKE01]1 x  Armor Ward[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e01]2 x  Bear Strength[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e05]1 x  Cheetah Speed[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWE03]1 x  Falcon Precision[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWE05]1 x  Forcefield[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE06]1 x  Lion Savagery[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e28]1 x  Mongoose Agility[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e29]1 x  Nullify[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e40]1 x  Vampirism[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWE04]1 x  Force Crush[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e32]1 x  Regrowth[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNE03]1 x  Stumble[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e16]1 x  Force Hold[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Equipment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=FWQ01]1 x  Dancing Scimitar[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWQ02]1 x  Defense Ring[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q09]1 x  Enchanter's Ring[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWQ04]1 x  Galvitar, Force Blade[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q11]1 x  Gauntlets of Strength[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKQ04]1 x  Reflex Boots[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Incantation[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1i02]2 x  Battle Fury[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i06]2 x  Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i07]2 x  Dissolve[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i12]2 x  Force Push[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i24]1 x  Seeking Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i26]1 x  Sleep[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i28]1 x  Teleport[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i20]1 x  Purify[/mwcard]
[/spells]
[cost]Total cost: 103 pts[/cost]
[/spellbook]

Turn 1: Move and cast Battle Forge in FC , and Temple of the Dawnbreaker in starting corner.
Turn 2: Hand of Bim-Shalla, and either Suppression Orb if I think swarm, or I start equipping/enchanting myself.
Turn 3: Continue equipping/enchanting myself, move to highest threat creature.

So, 17pts to go.  Where would you recommend going from here?  Is Mordok's Obelisk worth the spellpoints?  What about Stumble? 

Cards that I'm personally considering:
-1 Mordok's Obelisk (high spellpoint cost)
+1-2 Thoughtspores
+1 Block (cuz I get it for cheap, not sure if it's necessary)
+ 2 Decoy
+ 2 Mage Wands
Extra copies of certain Enchantments like Nullify
+1 Mind Control
+1 Charm
Psi Orb
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: Jon.Ambriz on September 29, 2014, 01:33:58 PM
As a fellow FM player, welcome! I'd suggest a [mwcard=MWSTX1CKQ01]Sunfire Amulet[/mwcard], so you can keep gaining life to make you a litter tankier. Also, if you're going to run a Proxy Thought Spore, I'd put in a Harmonize to increase its channeling so it's not just wandering around gathering mana. Another Teleport might be nice, and having a Mind Control for a One Turn Kill on any creature is extremely fun, though expensive.
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: Borg on September 30, 2014, 05:04:02 PM
Certainly include 2 to 3 [mwcard=MWSTX2FFE04]Brace Yourself[/mwcard]
With the Enchanter's Ring these cost only 1 mana and can be activated at the exact right time (when your defense fails)
I also prefer [mwcard=MW1E33]Retaliate[/mwcard] over Battle Fury.
BF will only give you an additional 4-dice attack, useful maybe to finish a creature in one attack.
Doublestrike + BF + scimitar can be lethal, however, a retaliate can be used as a surprise and at the right time for a much higher damage output.

I also run a [mwcard=MW1C18]Gorgon Archer[/mwcard] and a [mwcard=MW1C34]Steelclaw Grizzly[/mwcard]
Both creatures have nice synergy with the FM's force pull.

As an additional defensive measure [mwcard=MW1E12]Divine Protection[/mwcard] can be useful, especially against swarms.
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: IndyPendant on September 30, 2014, 09:08:35 PM
My suggestions:

--With all of your upkeep cards, consider adding a Psi-Orb.

--Drop the Defense Ring, it's not worth it.  Instead, add a Force Ring.

--If you're not going to wear armour, definitely include some copies of Brace Yourself.

--Might be worth including extra Dispel and/or Dissolve (or even Steal Equipment); Falcon Precision could *really* ruin your day.

--You might want some more equipment.  Some options: a Collossus or Regrowth Belt; a Sunfire Amulet; a Dispel Wand; a Healing Wand; an Elemental Cloak; and maybe even an Elemental Wand + Invisible Fist (or Acid Ball, or Jet Stream, or...).

--Beware getting pushed through your own Wall of Thorns; it's worth adding one piece of torso armour just in case.  Alternatively, and less ideally, you could go with Eagleclaw Boots.

--A second Wall of Thorns to extend in a single casting could prove useful.

--I like including a Reverse Attack and a Fumble, to be used at an opportune time.

--You...already have a Mordok's Obelisk in there.  I wouldn't include a second.

--I would double up on Mongoose Agility; Elusive is *required* to keep the heat on the mage.

That's about all I can think of off the top of my head.  Have fun with it!
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: chiller087 on October 01, 2014, 08:47:34 AM
Thanks so much guys for the replies.  Being new to the game, some of these cards hadn't occurred to me yet to add.

@IndyPendant:  I was actually referring to removing the Obelisk; wasn't sure if it was worth the spell points in the FM's book.
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: chiller087 on October 03, 2014, 07:33:39 PM
[spellbook]
[spellbookheader]
[spellbookname]FM 1.1[/spellbookname]
[mage]Forcemaster[/mage]
[/spellbookheader]
[spells]
[spellclass]Attack[/spellclass]
[mwcard=FWA02]2 x  Force Hammer[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Conjuration[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1j21]1 x  Suppression Orb[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1w04]2 x  Wall of Thorns[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j09]1 x  Temple of the Dawnbreaker[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j08]1 x  Hand of Bim-Shalla[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKJ01]1 x  Enchanter's Wardstone[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j04]1 x  Battle Forge[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Enchantment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE02]1 x  Akiro's Favor[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKE01]1 x  Armor Ward[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e01]2 x  Bear Strength[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e05]1 x  Cheetah Speed[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWE03]1 x  Falcon Precision[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWE05]1 x  Forcefield[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE06]1 x  Lion Savagery[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e28]2 x  Mongoose Agility[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e29]1 x  Nullify[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e33]1 x  Retaliate[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e40]1 x  Vampirism[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e32]1 x  Regrowth[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE07]1 x  Rust[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e34]1 x  Reverse Attack[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE05]1 x  Fumble[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e12]1 x  Divine Protection[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX2FFE04]2 x  Brace Yourself[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWE04]1 x  Force Crush[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e10]1 x  Decoy[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Equipment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=FWQ01]1 x  Dancing Scimitar[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q09]1 x  Enchanter's Ring[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWQ04]1 x  Galvitar, Force Blade[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKQ04]1 x  Reflex Boots[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWQ02]1 x  Defense Ring[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKQ01]1 x  Sunfire Amulet[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q07]1 x  Elemental Cloak[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q33]1 x  Wind Wyvern Hide[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNQ09]1 x  Wand of Healing[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q23]1 x  Regrowth Belt[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWQ07]1 x  Psi-Orb[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Incantation[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1i06]2 x  Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i07]2 x  Dissolve[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i12]2 x  Force Push[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i20]1 x  Purify[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i24]1 x  Seeking Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i26]1 x  Sleep[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i28]2 x  Teleport[/mwcard]
[/spells]
[cost]Total cost: 120 pts[/cost]
[/spellbook]

Ok here is my finished first draft, trying to fit in many of the suggestions I received.  If you see anything glaring or obvious, please speak up! I don't mind the criticism.  So many cards I want to shove into the build, all of a sudden 120 doesn't seem like nearly enough.  Cards I'm not yet sure about:

Force Crush might become a Force Hold if I need the spell points for something else.
Falcon Precision
Psi Orb
I'm trying out the Defense Ring, if I don't like it I'll switch for Force Ring.
Also not sure if I went overboard with the healing stuff...between Vampirism, Regrowth, Regrowth Belt and Sunfire Amulet.  But since this is a solo FM build, I thought I might need it.
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: Laddinfance on October 06, 2014, 08:40:19 AM
It's a small thing, but [mwcard=MW1Q33]Wind Wyvern Hide[/mwcard] is generally not that great at the moment. For Forcemasters, I generally run the [mwcard=FWQ10]Storm Drake Hide[/mwcard], as I hate being stunned. Though, [mwcard=MW1Q06]Dragonscale Hauberk[/mwcard] is always solid. I love your inclusion of the [mwcard=MWSTX1CKJ01]Enchanter's Wardstone[/mwcard]. Forcemaster's tend to have a plethora of enchantments, and so it's an easy add. Though their are many games where a Forcemaster can get it done by herself, I always include at least one buddy for her. It's always good to have a solid threat on the table other than her. Personally I go with the [mwcard=DNC03]Devouring Jelly[/mwcard]. It's tough to kill, she can push it around, and when it connects five dice plus chance for corrode is pretty dang awesome. Lastly, I would not underestimate [mwcard=MW1I02]Battle Fury[/mwcard]. No it doesn't get the full weight of your melee bonus, but it is an extra free swing with [mwcard=FWQ04]Galvitar, Force Blade[/mwcard]. That's four dice with piercing +2. If you do include a creature, often it can be helpful their as well.

Hopefully these suggestions are helpful. I really love playing a Forcemaster, and I'm glad to see you're delving right in!
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: BoomFrog on October 07, 2014, 05:32:03 PM
First of all, seeing as 2 of the top 8 at gencone were forcemasters (including me), I think she qualifies as "top tier".  Secondly, you are going to find yourself really tight on actions.  Don't use brace yourself or any cheap enchantments, you are going to be spending your main action attacking which means one spell and one equipment a turn to effectively spend your 10+1 channeling.

You need to keep your opponent at 0 armor, either a devouring jelly, and/or put the acid balls back in.  As you play more and find more cards to cut, spend the extra SP on dispel, acid ball and teleport.  A thoughtspore with acid ball can be good, but remember every full action you spend summoning is one less chop to your opponents face.  1 rust can also be nice because you can play it on them preemptively, especially good to flip it up right before pushing them through the thorns.

Regrowth and regrowth belt don't stack so I'd ditch the enchantment version, you'll have enough enchants to cast.

Try the obelisk and orb before you cut them.  I'm not sure how well they will work, I've never used them myself.  But don't cast too much antiswarm before your opponent has committed to a swarm.

Decoy is really not worth it unless your opponent is like 90%+ likely to seeking dispell it.  Risking losing the action isn't worth gaining the 2 mana.  Actions are precious for the forcemaster.
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: Jon.Ambriz on October 08, 2014, 10:29:38 PM
Try the obelisk and orb before you cut them.  I'm not sure how well they will work, I've never used them myself.  But don't cast too much antiswarm before your opponent has committed to a swarm.
Yeah, this is quite annoying when the Obelisk and Orb come out before the swarm has hit "critical mass". Then the swarmer just stops spawning to throw everything at both to destroy them before going back to nomming the FM in the face.

I also agree that taking out Regrowth is a good idea, since Regeneration doesn't stack. The Vampirism is good, and Sunfire Amulet is strong, and an underrated equipment. Just remember like BoomFrog said, you WILL be action reliant, so every action has to count toward the ultimate goal of killing the opposing mage.

You might consider replacing Decoy with [mwcard=MW1E24]Magebane[/mwcard], as a source of DOT damage. That 1 direct damage really stacks up. I also like [mwcard=MW1E23]Jinx[/mwcard] if I can predict them playing anything that would be super annoying like a big creature or hard hitting spell.
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: zorro on October 09, 2014, 02:43:58 AM
You might consider replacing Decoy with [mwcard=MW1E24]Magebane[/mwcard], as a source of DOT damage. That 1 direct damage really stacks up. I also like [mwcard=MW1E23]Jinx[/mwcard] if I can predict them playing anything that would be super annoying like a big creature or hard hitting spell.

Just minor correction,[mwcard=MW1E23] Jinx[/mwcard] can only stop quick cast spells, no the only creature it can delay is[mwcard=DNC17] Tataree[/mwcard]. I managed to kill a[mwcard=DNC04] Grey Wraith[/mwcard] with The butterfly, but probably not enough to consider it as a big creature :D
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: Jon.Ambriz on October 09, 2014, 01:19:43 PM
You might consider replacing Decoy with [mwcard=MW1E24]Magebane[/mwcard], as a source of DOT damage. That 1 direct damage really stacks up. I also like [mwcard=MW1E23]Jinx[/mwcard] if I can predict them playing anything that would be super annoying like a big creature or hard hitting spell.

Just minor correction,[mwcard=MW1E23] Jinx[/mwcard] can only stop quick cast spells, no the only creature it can delay is[mwcard=DNC17] Tataree[/mwcard]. I managed to kill a[mwcard=DNC04] Grey Wraith[/mwcard] with The butterfly, but probably not enough to consider it as a big creature :D

Ah! Thanks for correcting me on that >_>
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: chiller087 on October 09, 2014, 10:20:36 PM
Just minor correction,[mwcard=MW1E23] Jinx[/mwcard] can only stop quick cast spells, no the only creature it can delay is[mwcard=DNC17] Tataree[/mwcard]. I managed to kill a[mwcard=DNC04] Grey Wraith[/mwcard] with The butterfly, but probably not enough to consider it as a big creature :D

If the Beastmaster cast one of his level 1 creatures as a quick spell, wouldn't Jinx stop that?
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: chiller087 on October 09, 2014, 10:32:56 PM
You might consider replacing Decoy with [mwcard=MW1E24]Magebane[/mwcard], as a source of DOT damage. That 1 direct damage really stacks up. I also like [mwcard=MW1E23]Jinx[/mwcard] if I can predict them playing anything that would be super annoying like a big creature or hard hitting spell.

Just minor correction,[mwcard=MW1E23] Jinx[/mwcard] can only stop quick cast spells, no the only creature it can delay is[mwcard=DNC17] Tataree[/mwcard]. I managed to kill a[mwcard=DNC04] Grey Wraith[/mwcard] with The butterfly, but probably not enough to consider it as a big creature :D

What about Harmonize on the Battle Forge?  If I did both turn 1, if I'm doing my math right, Harmonize will have paid for itself during turn 5, and then the profit from Harmonize effectively means Battle Forge will have paid for itself during turn 7 (instead of turn 9 without Harmonize) and everything after that is profit, assuming it doesn't get dispelled.

Do you think that's worth it for a FM?
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: Borg on October 10, 2014, 02:13:29 AM
Harmonize is not worth it on a BF imo because you run out of useful spells to cast real soon, then the BF sits there accumulating mana but with nothing vital to do.

The Forcemaster really only needs Galvitar and the Dancing Scimitar. The rest of the equipment is situational.

Personally I don't play an enchanter's ring with my Forcemaster as I consider it an action wasted and better spent on something more "damaging" and I usually have enough mana to spend. Since the FM will want to use his full action to attack each round you basically channel 10 mana to use on a quickaction every round, that's more than enough, so there's no need for an Enchanter's Ring imo.
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: BoomFrog on October 10, 2014, 07:50:49 AM
If you don't use a battleforge Enchanter's ring is a waste of a precious action.  I haven't tried battleforge-less FM, it seems like have way too much mana and are unable to spend it well, unless maybe you have a thoughtspore?

Galvatar, Scimitar, Gauntlets of Str, Enchanter's Ring, Leather Boots, and a chest armor are all worth wile items.  Force Ring, Regen belt and moon glow amulet can be good in long games vs defensive opponents.

However, I would go with a mana crystal over harmonize unless you have a specific plan that really requires that 1 more mana.  The 1 extra upfront is probably worth the flexibility.  And killing a forcemaster's battleforge is already a tempting idea for many opponents.
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: chiller087 on October 11, 2014, 11:36:08 PM
Ok, so I finally got to play my FM build vs sshroom's Beastmaster build, and...

Holy cow, am I terrible at this game.

I mean, I know I have to start somewhere but man...what's a typical 3-turn opening for a FM these days? 

I setup my Battle Forge and the first thing he did was send in a bunch of Falcons to kill it.  Granted he got pretty lucky rolling tons of criticals, but the FM just felt way too slow, at 1 QC + movement + BF cast.  I simply assumed I'm doing it entirely wrong, since people seem to think she's pretty good.  I think I should've cast Galvatar a lot earlier than I did.  I can also see why people aren't crazy about the Defense Ring, I never once rolled a six to make it matter, so that will probably come out.

Also, are Reflex Boots worth it?  I'm thinking of turning them into Leather Boots.  Low Mana was always a problem.  If I do, I'm thinking Temple of the Dawnbreaker should come out as well.  Maybe I'll toss the Obelisk back in instead.
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: BoomFrog on October 12, 2014, 03:11:51 AM
Heh, yeah, I wasn't sure how competitive your local meta was but Beastmaster with Falcons was the Gencon winning champions book.  It gives the forcemaster quite a bit of trouble because you don't have reach or  appropriate creatures.  I'm trying to restrain myself from saying "play my book the way I play it", though.  This is how I play:

If the beastmaster charges you then make it a damage race, focus on killing them before the birds get you, Mind control his pet, if he doesn't dispel it the turn you cast it it will end up stunned twice for very little net mana cost.  If you do get to keep the falcon remember it still gets the pet bonus for being in the beastmasters zone. :)

If the beastmaster walls himself in the corner then look for opportunities to mind control a falcon that will be too far away for him to dispel.  If you have an appropriate creature that helps too, such as gorgon archer, grimson deadeye, or necropian Vampiress.

More general advice, defenses are for mitigating big attacks, armor is for small attacks, since forcemaster natively has a good defense you only want to add armor.  Leather boots are the correct choice.  My typical turn 1 opening is:

Turn 1: Cheetah speed, Battleforge

Turn 2: Deploy Enchanter's ring, enchant self (bear str usually), Attack if able, otherwise summon ooze or thought spore or move closer and play rust on the enemy mage. - This choice depends on what your opponent is doing.  FM gets into it fast to minimize the benefit your opponent can get out of creatures and spawnpoints which you lack.

Turn 3: Deploy Guantlets of str, Enchant self with Arkiro's favor, Attack.

Play Galvatar only if they armored up or you are starting in the zone with your target.  Play scimitar only if you don't expect them to be able to run away, so it is also typically deployed the turn after galvatar.  Force Ring is only for games that will go long so I only usually deploy it if I am using a creature as well.  Don't play armor beyond leather boots unless you've run out of offensive items or your opponent removed your armor.

Remember to get forcefield down before the last turn of the game.  Last turn of the game you probably want to play jinx and attack, maybe hurl boulder and attack if you think it will work.

Personally I would ditch obelisk and suppression orb.  Those are the tactics of someone who wants a long game.  Aggressive forcemaster wants to end the game in 4-6 turns, you will pay about as much for the obelisk as your opponent does in that time!  Defensive forcemaster does exist but you need creatures to summon that will give you long game benefit.  Aim for long game or short game and focus on that.  Similarly forcecrush is overkill.

Btw, I'd estimate new players need to get totally crushed between 5-9 times before they become competent at the game.  That's a big part of why there are so few players, the learning curve is tremendous. 
Good luck, young padawan.  :)
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: Borg on October 12, 2014, 04:00:57 AM
I mean, I know I have to start somewhere but man...what's a typical 3-turn opening for a FM these days? 

T1 20
QC Cheetah Speed, move to NC, Bear Strength face down

T2 23
move to FC
Galvitar
FD Akiro's favour

T3 20
QC Dancing Scimitar
Reveal Bear Strength
move in to attack ( 6 + 3 dice )
maybe use your defense

T4 20
Necropian Vampiress
Rouse the Beast

T5 9 .....
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: BoomFrog on October 12, 2014, 09:18:44 AM
Thinking about it, Enchanter's ring is probably a waste of an action since you are only going to use it about 3 times.  I think skip it.
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: chiller087 on October 13, 2014, 11:39:24 AM
You know, the more I think about a strategy built around a turn 4-6 win, the more I wonder why I would need things like the Regen Belt and Sunfire Amulet, as those are geared towards long games.  It seems to me that I'd be more inclined to just double up on my important enchantments and swing for all I'm worth, and try to end it early.

Maybe I'd need them against a tanky priestess?
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: Borg on October 13, 2014, 12:15:12 PM
You know, the more I think about a strategy built around a turn 4-6 win, the more I wonder why I would need things like the Regen Belt and Sunfire Amulet, as those are geared towards long games.  It seems to me that I'd be more inclined to just double up on my important enchantments and swing for all I'm worth, and try to end it early.

That's correct. You don't need them in an agressive build.
In an agressive build you're focused on generating as many attack dice asap.

Regen Belt and Sunfire Amulet do not put damage on the opposing mage.

They are more like plan B cards when the original plan does not work out as planned and things are going to take "a little longer" :)

Obviously they are only worth it when played by a Battle Forge because the FM needs his actions for much more important stuff like Retaliate, Reverse attack, Dissolve, Dispel, Force Hammer, Battle Fury, Force Push, Teleport and things like that ;)
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: Jon.Ambriz on October 13, 2014, 01:47:20 PM
You know, the more I think about a strategy built around a turn 4-6 win, the more I wonder why I would need things like the Regen Belt and Sunfire Amulet, as those are geared towards long games.  It seems to me that I'd be more inclined to just double up on my important enchantments and swing for all I'm worth, and try to end it early.

That's correct. You don't need them in an agressive build.
In an agressive build you're focused on generating as many attack dice asap.

Regen Belt and Sunfire Amulet do not put damage on the opposing mage.

They are more like plan B cards when the original plan does not work out as planned and things are going to take "a little longer" :)

Obviously they are only worth it when played by a Battle Forge because the FM needs his actions for much more important stuff like Retaliate, Reverse attack, Dissolve, Dispel, Force Hammer, Battle Fury, Force Push, Teleport and things like that ;)
If you look at the top finishers for the GenCon tournament, there was at least one FM in the top 8. That FM used Sunfire Ammy to offset the amount of damage, since you are pounding away at the opposing mage you have little to no way of healing yourself. The +1 Life every Upkeep is a way of making yourself a little more beefy without needing to put too many points into armor. The games I watched this particular FM almost went to time, and he did win quite a few games that way. If memory serves right, that FM also have Vampirism on Galvitar as another way to off-set damage with some healing.

Now, my typical two turn actions are:

T1: QC Cheetah Speed, move to OC (I call the middle two squares off-center); A) FD Hawkeye if I do have initiative next turn, B) Bear Strength if I don't.

T2A) No QC, Move within range then double Force Hammer.

T2B) QC Galvitar, move into zone, reveal BS, attack.

Now, these two turns in a casual game generally set me up fairly well since double Force Hammer with Hawkeye is strong enough to bring down most conjurations, especially spawnpoints (4 base +2 Conj +1 Hawkeye), while B will set me up nicely to keep Force Pulling my victim back into me for a Double Strike with Galvitar.

Anyway, against the Straywood BM, I would not recommend Mind Controlling his pet. I would Pacify and Charm it because if you can't pay the Upkeep on the Pet, it will be destroyed, then the SBM will just make a new pet with something potentially more dangerous like a Timber Wolf, Grizzly Bear, etc.  Against swarmers, you only want to reveal the Mordok's Obelisk and Suppression Orb (and Gravikor once it becomes legal <3 ) only when the swarm has hit Critical Mass, or the point where the swamer's counter vastly overpower yours. The Upkeep +1 will take out some of the swarm creatures, and the Suppression Orb will restrict their movements to either of the Conjurations. Just remember against a Straywood BM he only has 9 channel with a base 19 on T1. That's why I say Mordok's and Suppression Orb are situational but a staple, even if you are running hyper aggressive.

For creatures, I'd say a Zombie Brute is super underrated paired with a Forcemaster. Is it expensive? Hell yes, but, not much more than a Necropian Vampiress; however, unlike the NV, with a ZB you have the reassurance of infinite armor with Resilience, and Blood Thirsty +2 with a base QA 4. In your example against the Staywood, a Zombie Brute is a HUGE THREAT because that 6 QA will quickly add up, forcing the swarm to either split up to bring the ZB down (good luck with that) or all-in and try to kill the FM.
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: Borg on October 13, 2014, 03:24:51 PM
That FM used Sunfire Ammy to offset the amount of damage, since you are pounding away at the opposing mage you have little to no way of healing yourself. The +1 Life every Upkeep is a way of making yourself a little more beefy without needing to put too many points into armor. The games I watched this particular FM almost went to time, and he did win quite a few games that way. If memory serves right, that FM also have Vampirism on Galvitar as another way to off-set damage with some healing.

Vampirism is the best choice to heal a FM imo as it can heal 3 damage on a rather consistent basis.
Regrowth or Regrowth Belt come next with their 2 regenerating.
Sunfire Amulet adds 1 life but that makes little difference imo as it takes 5 turns to increase your life total 5 clicks, you're better of playing a minor heal then so you can get +/- 5 damage healed with one stroke.

If you're low on damage, there's no need to play Sunfire Amulet, if you're high on damage it's probably too little too late for it. I consider it a wasted action better spent on something else really. my 2 cents :)
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: Jon.Ambriz on October 13, 2014, 03:42:50 PM
Vampirism is the best choice to heal a FM imo as it can heal 3 damage on a rather consistent basis.
Regrowth or Regrowth Belt come next with their 2 regenerating.
Sunfire Amulet adds 1 life but that makes little difference imo as it takes 5 turns to increase your life total 5 clicks, you're better of playing a minor heal then so you can get +/- 5 damage healed with one stroke.

If you're low on damage, there's no need to play Sunfire Amulet, if you're high on damage it's probably too little too late for it. I consider it a wasted action better spent on something else really. my 2 cents :)
But, consider that most of the action doesn't happen for 1 - 3 turns, which means the Sunfire Amulet has more than enough time to tick up life if it's played on T1.
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: Borg on October 14, 2014, 05:22:50 AM
Vampirism is the best choice to heal a FM imo as it can heal 3 damage on a rather consistent basis.
Regrowth or Regrowth Belt come next with their 2 regenerating.
Sunfire Amulet adds 1 life but that makes little difference imo as it takes 5 turns to increase your life total 5 clicks, you're better of playing a minor heal then so you can get +/- 5 damage healed with one stroke.

If you're low on damage, there's no need to play Sunfire Amulet, if you're high on damage it's probably too little too late for it. I consider it a wasted action better spent on something else really. my 2 cents :)
But, consider that most of the action doesn't happen for 1 - 3 turns, which means the Sunfire Amulet has more than enough time to tick up life if it's played on T1.

I'd say there are much more important spells to cast at T1 for a FM.

If you're planning for roughly a 6 turn game, you get no more than 5 life out of it, the same you will on average get out of a Minor Heal. So I'd say it is better to play something else instead of the Amulet and keep a Minor Heal in your hand/book should you need one.


Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: BoomFrog on October 14, 2014, 06:24:39 AM
I took regrowth belt out of my FM book and I regretted it. As said before, I use Battleforge, and sometimes your opponent makes the game long and a regrowth belt is perfect fit that. It's a 'free' action to play and it works even when your attacking is thwarted . If you need healing it's because you can't hurt the enemy this turn so vampirism isn't great sometimes.   I'd rather use forcefield as 'healing' if everything is going according to plan and I'm in melee.

Sunfire amulet is only really useful because of the tournament format tie breaker . If the enemy mage plays super defensively then the sunfire amulet can win you the tie breaker.
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: chiller087 on October 14, 2014, 08:36:52 AM
What is the current tie breaker, and where can I find it printed?
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: BoomFrog on October 15, 2014, 08:01:10 AM
The current tie breaker is net life left.  (Max life - Damage).  Thus if the game has been super defensive and no one has any damage on them the winner is the mage with the higher max life.  Sunfire is the only thing that can really affect that besides drain soul.  In the Gencon tournament this was the strategy of one of the players, prevent all damage and win at time from sunfire amulet, he got 2nd place.
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: Borg on October 15, 2014, 08:34:41 AM
  In the Gencon tournament this was the strategy of one of the players, prevent all damage and win at time from sunfire amulet, he got 2nd place.
Now THAT sounds like a pretty lame strategy ...
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: Jon.Ambriz on October 15, 2014, 02:07:33 PM
In the Gencon tournament this was the strategy of one of the players, prevent all damage and win at time from sunfire amulet, he got 2nd place.
The 2nd place winner was a solo Fire Wizard who used kiting and position to get 2nd. He didn't prevent all damage, he just predicted moves and was able to take a zone advantage.
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: V10lentray on October 15, 2014, 02:33:31 PM
He also played i think 4 suppression cloaks.
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: BoomFrog on October 15, 2014, 10:17:34 PM
We are getting pretty off topic.
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: chiller087 on November 13, 2014, 02:47:18 PM
Is it generally necessary to run 2x of your most important enchantments? 

So far I've been running 2x Bear Strength, 2x Mongoose Agility, and 2x Falcon Precision.

Also, how would a FM deal with Purge Magic?  Try to sniff it out and hope to counter with Jinx?
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: sdougla2 on November 13, 2014, 02:59:49 PM
Jinx doesn't really solve the problem of Purge Magic since they get their mana back and they can just cast it next round. It also doesn't do anything about Destroy Magic. Enchanter's Wardstone makes Purge Magic and Destroy Magic a lot less efficient. Nullify kind of helps, but it's easy to probe for a Nullify before playing Purge Magic and it does nothing against Destroy Magic. If you have multiple creatures, you can use Enchantment Transfusion.
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: chiller087 on November 13, 2014, 08:41:02 PM
So then does it make sense to run 2x Bear Strength, 2x Cheetah Speed, 2x Mongoose Agility, 2x Lion Savagery, and 2x Akiro's Favor, since I'm heavily relying on these and I can't prevent the Purge?
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: reddawn on November 13, 2014, 10:08:13 PM
Stuff I would take out:

-Wall of Thorns
-Temple of the Dawnbreaker
-Regrowth
-Brace Yourself
-Defense Ring
-Decoy
-Reflex Boots
-Wand of Healing
-Sunfire Amulet
-Armor Ward

This would free up 47 points.  I'll explain the choices:

WoT; Good opponents play armor.  I understand people love the Force Push + WoT gimmick, but the moment your opponent plays armor, it's bad.  And pretty much all books have some kind of armor and Eagleclaw boots.

Temple, Defense Ring, Reflex Boots; With two very efficient ways to counter Defenses in Falcon Precision and Morning Star, among other cards like Tanglevine and those that inflict dazes, spending mana on improving your innate defense isn't worth it.  Think of her defense as a tax on her opponent she gets every game; your opponent pretty much has to answer it in some way while you can spend mana on things that actually help you deal more damage.

Regrowth, Wand of Healing, Sunfire Amulet; You should be more concerned about maintaining a high dice count rather than playing these.  Most of the time, if Vampirism can't give you the sustain you need to keep applying pressure, you're in serious trouble.

Decoy; Honestly, I've never seen a reason to include this card.

Armor Ward; Given that Galvitar has Cantrip, I'm not sure why you'd need this.  I think you'd prefer another Nullify.  You'll find that players are usually ok with paying extra to destroy powerful equipment like Galvitar, and Nullify can prevent cards that counter Galvitar hard, like Agony. 

I would suggest anything that can add to your actions, particularly Thoughtspores.  You shouldn't lean on them too much, but having one or two around helps a lot.  Goblin Builder is good here too, and lets you get out your conjurations while playing your enchants, and can take a couple hits guarding or removing guards before it's gone.  It can also cast Deathlock, which is my next suggestion; you'll want some ways to heal against mages that are also aggressive, but Deathlock is something defensive, late-game oriented mages can't ignore and have to destroy through attacking.  You'll probably also want a Poisoned Blood as a one-sided option against aggressive mage-centric builds so you can win the healing war.  Try the I. Stalker; though people complain about the FM's access to creatures, I very rarely see anyone play her signature creature, if any creatures at all. 

That's all I got for now.  The best advice is just to playtest and not be afraid to end a game in which your strategy just isn't working out and try something else.  This also helps you not get bogged down by losing, since it's no secret that Mage Wars can be a long game.  Even tournament Mage Wars lasts a while (1 hr 15-30mins) and they expect you to know your deck pretty well and play quickly at that point. 
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: reddawn on November 13, 2014, 10:12:51 PM
So then does it make sense to run 2x Bear Strength, 2x Cheetah Speed, 2x Mongoose Agility, 2x Lion Savagery, and 2x Akiro's Favor, since I'm heavily relying on these and I can't prevent the Purge?

I would say that's a good idea.  I'm not sure about 2 Cheetah Speed, I would include 1 and then go from there, but 2 each of the others for sure. 
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: chiller087 on November 13, 2014, 11:00:55 PM
Stuff I would take out:

-Wall of Thorns
-Temple of the Dawnbreaker
-Regrowth
-Brace Yourself
-Defense Ring
-Decoy
-Reflex Boots
-Wand of Healing
-Sunfire Amulet
-Armor Ward

Funny, I took out exactly all those cards tonight right before I saw your post, except for WoT.
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: Laddinfance on November 14, 2014, 08:28:35 AM
I would caution the removal of Wand of Healing. It can remove conditions and that can be a huge boon to the Forcemaster. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: BoomFrog on November 14, 2014, 08:10:55 PM
The forcemaster had the tightest restriction on actions of any mage, you are attacking almost every round and often need to use force pull which leaves you with Battleforge and very few versital actions. And if healing is very action intensive to use.

Every condition that can affect your made can be felt with by another card more action effectively. Corrode removed by deploying new armor or disarming your chest piece. Poison can be purged. Daze can be mitigated by akiro's favor. Burns can be washed off with geyser. Stuck can be teleported out of. Besides deflect deters most spells that cause conditions anyway.

Tl,dr: Use purify not wand of healing.
Title: Re: Help with finishing FM build
Post by: reddawn on November 16, 2014, 10:16:11 PM
Most of the time I only really include Wand of Healing because removing Sleep in that way doesn't cause a daze or damage, and it provides a healing option that could be used later on.

The wand is better if someone is afflicting different types of conditions, but that's not usually the case.