Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Spellbook Design and Construction => Topic started by: Ophidimancer on September 29, 2015, 11:41:55 PM
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Looking for some critique and advice on a spellbook. It's for local play and not OCTGN, so I'm limited to the expansions I've bought (Core, Tome 1, DvN) and random promos from GenCon (Altar of the Iron Guard, Acid Blast, Bloodthirsty Strike). Sorry for the unformatted nature of this spellbook, the builder wouldn't let me put in some of the promos I have.
Battle Fury 1
Bloodthirsty Strike 1
Dispel 2
Dissolve 2
Force Push 2
Heal 1
Knockdown 1
Minor Heal 1
Perfect Strike 1
Piercing Strike 2
Purge Magic 1
Rouse the Beast 1
Seeking Dispel 2
Teleport 1
Bearskin 1
Gauntlets of Strength 1
Leather Boots 1
Mage Staff 1
Mage Wand 1
Regrowth Belt 1
Bear Strength 1
Cheetah Speed 1
Cobra Reflexes 1
Eagle Wings 2
Harmonize 1
Jinx 2
Mongoose Agility 1
Nullify 4
Rhino Hide 1
Bitterwood Fox 4
Cervere, The Forest Shadow 1
Emerald Tegu 1
Fellella 1
Feral Bobcat 2
Spitting Raptor 1
Steelclaw Grizzly 1
Thunderift Falcon 1
Altar of the Iron Guard 1
Animal Kinship 2
Mana Flower 2
Tanglevine 4
Wall of Thorns 3
Acid Ball 2
Acid Blast 1
Anyway, the main tactic is to plop down two Animal Kinships (I would use more is I had them) so that a canine is also the equivalent of a Bear Strength, a reptile is the equivalent of a Rhino Hide, a cat also doubles as a Mongoose Agility, and a bear is the equivalent of two Colossus Belts. Only these buffs can't be dispelled or dissolved. Then the Straywood Beastmaster aka Mowgli and a few friends (Fox, Bobcat, and Raptor for the Melee, Elusive, and Armor) go aggro on the other mage.
The rest of the book is there for reacting to enemy tactics. Equipment and Enchantments to enhance the main tactic and make Mowgli even more intimidating, Fellella summoned if needed to manage Enchantments (possibly Jinx/Nullify if up against Dispel/Dissolve). Bagheera (Cervere) and Baloo (Grizzly) are available as bigs depending on what is necessary, up against someone likely to use Daze/Stun/Corrode, I'd summon the bear to give me Tough -4 for example. Various command incantations to make the mage's hits even more nasty, stuck in a Mage Wand if it's worth repeating.
What do you guys think?
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I think your idea has some potential, but that you will run into mana problems very quickly. Two Animal Kinship is 16 of your initial 19 mana. You only get 9 each turn after that...when do you expect to be able to summon the Grizzly or Cervere?
I would expect your opening to go something like this:
(19)Kinship(11)>Mana Flower(6)
(16)Kinship(8)>Bitterwood Fox(3)
(13)Mage Staff(8)>Melee attack(8) or FD Bear Strength(6) or Mana Flower (3)
And then from there you can drop Tegu or Timber Wolf and keep enchanting or attacking? Is that the plan?
This is a fun idea and I think it will be massively helped by the addition of Academy. There are many cheap creatures that can give you great benefit from your Animal Kinships...and they are level 1 so you can quick summon them!
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Huh ... you know I couldn't find it after going back a few pages, but after going back a dozen pages or so, I think my build is basically a variation of SilverClawGrizzly's Straywood Warrior.
I'm pretty sure I was going to not drop any Mana Flowers in favor of just going full aggro.
Possibly ...
(19)Kinship(11)>Kinship(3)
(12)Altar of the Iron Guard(8 )>Bitterwood Fox(3)
(12)FD Something Depending*(10)>Emerald Tegu(1)
At which point I will have +2 Melee, +2 Armor, a Fox on the attack and a Tegu Guarding me in my zone. Hopefully I will be able to start spamming melee attacks, so I start saving Mana every turn. If they Guard with something I can always QC a Feral Bobcat and gain both a Guard in my zone and Elusive to ignore guard.
*Could be a Bear Strength for later, Cobra Reflexes, or Eagle Wings, depending on what I need. This could also possibly be a Leather Boots. Alternately if it looks like they're gearing up for a bigger hit, I could save the mana by skipping the QC and make the Tegu a Pet, which will make a nasty Guard with a 5 dice counterstrike, 4 armor, and 11 health.
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With Academy coming out this build can get ridiculous!
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Does Academy have a Rank 1 Reptile? Because being able to QC my Armor +2 would be very nice.
Edit: Ooh, Darkfenne Asp, come here my pretty!
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Ooh, Darkfenne Asp, come here my pretty!
Eponysterical!
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What expansion would you guys recommend for this build? Both my husband and I want to get Conquest of Kumanjaro because he plays a Priestess and I play a Beastmaster. Anything else that would be good, besides Academy?
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What expansion would you guys recommend for this build? Both my husband and I want to get Conquest of Kumanjaro because he plays a Priestess and I play a Beastmaster. Anything else that would be good, besides Academy?
Druid vs. Necromancer Acid Ball and Burst of Thorns might come in handy vs. heavily armored creatures and Meditation Amulet, can be nice in most heavy creature builds. (you might regret getting the Necromancer)
If he gets [mwcard=MWSTX1CKC06]Guardian Angel[/mwcard] your Beastmaster might want [mwcard=FWE03]Falcon Precision[/mwcard] from Forcemaster vs Warlord. You'd probably like [mwcard=FWJ08]Renewing Spring[/mwcard] as well.
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What expansion would you guys recommend for this build? Both my husband and I want to get Conquest of Kumanjaro because he plays a Priestess and I play a Beastmaster. Anything else that would be good, besides Academy?
Druid vs. Necromancer Acid Ball and Burst of Thorns might come in handy vs. heavily armored creatures and Meditation Amulet, can be nice in most heavy creature builds. (you might regret getting the Necromancer)
If he gets [mwcard=MWSTX1CKC06]Guardian Angel[/mwcard] your Beastmaster might want [mwcard=FWE03]Falcon Precision[/mwcard] from Forcemaster vs Warlord. You'd probably like [mwcard=FWJ08]Renewing Spring[/mwcard] as well.
I would say DvN's main attraction for living swarms is Etherian Lifetree. However you might not need it since Academy will have Slavörg and lots of stuff to beef up level 1 animals fairly easily.
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We actually have Druid v Necromancer already, am I not using something from there that I should? Also, this is not a swarm build.
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Right now the book is a bit unfocused strategically. That's partially because of the limited card pool you've got, and maybe also because you haven't played with it a ton to see what you don't end up casting much?
If you're dedicated to full agro you're not going to have much time for casting and protecting Fellella. Summoning creatures is hard in an agro book because it requires you to stand still, and who wants to do that? If you really want an extra action generator, I'd recommend Battle Forge because it's only a quick spell so you can play it on the first or second round while you're moving into position.
If we wanted to steal a page from the first really successful agro book, PiousFlea's Bashcon winning Lord of Terror, your full agro opening could go:
0. If possible, chose to give your opponent the Initiative marker for the first round. You want even-polarity initiative, so you can hit on round 3, then again immediately on round 4.
1. (19) Move twice to Near Center. Enchant yourself with [mwcard=MW1E05] Cheetah Speed[/mwcard]. (17)
2. (26) Summon [mwcard=MW1C07] Cervere[/mwcard]. (11) Summon a pet [mwcard=MW1C04]Fox[/mwcard] (4).
3. (13) Quickcast [mwcard=MW1J02] Animal Kinship[/mwcard] (5). Reveal [mwcard=MW1E05] Cheetah Speed[/mwcard] (2). Move Twice with Fast, and if the opponent hasn't spent 3 rounds cowering in the corner, hit with your personal 5 die melee attack, ignoring any guards via your new Elusive trait. Bring in Cervere. That's another Fast 4 die attack with Elusive. Bring in the Pet Fox. That's another Fast 5 die attack. This one hasn't got Elusive, but I think that's probably ok. Marvel at the 14 dice of attacks you've thrown across the board on round 3. But do it secretly. Let your opponent know that you've done it before and will do it again.
4. (11) If you managed to set it up so that you get initiative this round, Jinx your opponent during the Quickcast phase. Maybe do it anyway, even if you didn't. (8) If that works, just hit again. It's ugly but it's useful. Doing another 14 dice of attacks will really end the game quick, and you and your creatures are surprisingly hard to run from, what with being fast and all.
5. (17) By this point, the game should have started to stabilize a little. Your opponent has some Armor or a Healing spell or something. Maybe your Fox is dead or Cervere is Banished. Lots of options. But if you've managed to hit with most of those 28 dice, it probably doesn't matter. [mwcard=MW1A04] Fireball[/mwcard] (9). [mwcard=MW1A04] Fireball[/mwcard] (1). Did I mention that you play [mwcard=MW1A04] Fireball[/mwcard] now? ;)
6. (10) Since you've got Initiative again, [mwcard=MW1I24] Seeking Dispel[/mwcard] then [mwcard=MW1A04] Fireball[/mwcard]. (8) (0)
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Now that your spellbook is capable of a really dangerous Full Agro opening, you can bluff and double bluff other options. But you need the great fastball before the changeup works.
Options for changing it up:
Obviously, your slower-and-steadier play is to get that 2nd Animal Kinship into play. That's when the Reptile and Bear modes are better, because you can stack Armor and use Tough to keep it from getting acid-washed, while your opponent has to deal with the Spitting Raptor's loogies. Eww.
You've already got Acid Ball and Rust, so those make good additions too. Dissolve is obviously powerful, as is Teleport. If you're playing Battle Forge, the Tough will help protect that armor from acid, too. Accumulating Equipment is slightly slower on the opening, but you get more mana and more toys. If you go that route, you may consider Purify, for getting rid of Weak markers, more Dispels for getting rid of Force Hold, and more Teleports for getting rid of Tanglevines.
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If you ever get Forcemaster vs Warlord, btw, replace or supplement the Fireballs with Hurl Boulder. Less susceptible to being hated on by Elemental Cloak and Dragonscale Hauberk.
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Damn, that's good stuff Kich. Thanks! This almost makes me feel like I'm cheating, especially since my husband refuses to read forums and just wants to figure it all out for himself.
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I'd change turn 1 slightly: quickcast Cheetah Speed first, reveal it, then move twice and cast a Fox as your activation. This way, you've got an active Fox on turn 2 and could event Rouse the Beast on Cervere for 2 animals attacking in turn 2 (if your opponent didn't stay in his starting zone), or get a second Fox in play on turn 2 to make a bigger move on turn 3.
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Damn, that's good stuff Kich. Thanks! This almost makes me feel like I'm cheating, especially since my husband refuses to read forums and just wants to figure it all out for himself.
You should tell him that very few pro-level players if any ignore the forum outright. It's too good a resource, and there are things like card rulings and strategy articles and other useful things that you're not necessarily going to find elsewhere. Plus, it's the hub of the global Mage Wars community.
Mage Wars is a customizable strategy game, not a puzzle game. It's not cheating to get tips and hints after a casual match to improve your tactics and spellbook design. That's part of the reason that the forum exists. Your husband is missing out.
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I agree with Vulcan.
First couple (read: a lot! ::) ) of times I played online I got destroyed. I wasn't used people playing this aggressive and all of my openings were simply too slow. Things like 2 wall of thorns-pushes in a row were devestating. I just never used a WOT other then to block los and hide behind it.
I also learned what a killer sleep can be.. :o
Now I think I win around 50-60%...
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If it's any balm to your singed conscience, the tournament winning book I mentioned, Lord of Terror, wasn't a Beastmaster book. It was an Araxian Crown Warlock that played Adremelech or Dark Pact Slayer. It's now mostly outdated tech, but I'm fairly proud of this adaptation. Beastmaster seems to do it better than Warlock did because Kinship is such an efficient card. I'm wondering what I can put together using the whole card pool.
The Fox is a bit of a weak link at 1 armor and 8 health, because a lucky roll on an attack spell can kill it; but it would break-even on mana and action cost, so that's probably fine, even if it does cost your melee+1. Replacing it can be a good option if you're not at a point to close the game with attack spells yet. If possible, it's fun to have another one already prepares when the first one dies, so you cast the replacement pet immediately, rather than wait for 2 rounds for it to be able to attack again. And of course, playing 6 foxes is easy, but playing 4 attack spells just to kill foxes is harder (without spellbind).
(My Beastmasters go through a lot of pets. The humane league won't let me adopt anymore.)
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I'd change turn 1 slightly: quickcast Cheetah Speed first, reveal it, then move twice and cast a Fox as your activation. This way, you've got an active Fox on turn 2 and could event Rouse the Beast on Cervere for 2 animals attacking in turn 2 (if your opponent didn't stay in his starting zone), or get a second Fox in play on turn 2 to make a bigger move on turn 3.
Nah, that won't work iNano78, you're 1 mana short for that ;)
19 : Cheetah Speed 5 + Fox 5
18 : 19 needed to cast and rouse cervere
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I'd change turn 1 slightly: quickcast Cheetah Speed first, reveal it, then move twice and cast a Fox as your activation. This way, you've got an active Fox on turn 2 and could event Rouse the Beast on Cervere for 2 animals attacking in turn 2 (if your opponent didn't stay in his starting zone), or get a second Fox in play on turn 2 to make a bigger move on turn 3.
Nah, that won't work iNano78, you're 1 mana short for that ;)
19 : Cheetah Speed 5 + Fox 5
18 : 19 needed to cast and rouse cervere
Wow, forgot how expensive Cervere is. No wonder I switched him out for Rajah, Jungle's Talon in a couple of my decks. :P
(Of course, Rajah isn't Fast, so it won't be able to attack turn 2 unless your opponent happens to move 2 spaces towards you - oh, and you probably need to wait a couple weeks for Academy to be released retail)
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If you ever get Forcemaster vs Warlord, btw, replace or supplement the Fireballs with Hurl Boulder. Less susceptible to being hated on by Elemental Cloak and Dragonscale Hauberk.
Not to mention the spellbook points cost to include three Fireballs : 18 sbp's. ;)
Other than that I really liked your scheme, going in with an unenchanted Cervere is new to me. I usually cast Cervere on R1 so he'll have at least 1 or more enchantments on him by the time he strikes but your opening might be interesting to use vs ... a Necromancer for instance ?
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Hmm ... I do have that Hurl Meteorite. Benefit of having a friend who goes to Gen Con every year.
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Not to mention the spellbook points cost to include three Fireballs : 18 sbp's. ;)
Yeah, at 6 points a piece they're pretty dear. That's why I'm not suggesting 4. :) Then again, my idea of a beautiful spellbook is Priestess playing Dire Wolves and Deathlock, or Forcemaster playing Steelclaw Grizzly, so your mileage may vary.
More seriously, Agro books aren't played for the long game. All those carefully horded spellbook points should be spent as fast as possible instead. You lose the long game to Gate to Voltari or Lair anyway.
Other than that I really liked your scheme, going in with an unenchanted Cervere is new to me. I usually cast Cervere on R1 so he'll have at least 1 or more enchantments on him by the time he strikes but your opening might be interesting to use vs ... a Necromancer for instance ?
Necro, Priestess, Swarm Beastmaster, Core Wizard, any druid that doesn't play Vine Tree on turn one (though I might try for double Fox instead of Fox pet), Anyone whose first turn play is double Mana Crystal (except Wizard's Tower Wizard, so none of them). Any newish player who hasn't seen a Round Three agro book yet, etc.
And I'd be more likely to play this opening if I got even polarity. I wouldn't want to try this against Druid that can cast and reveal Barkskin during the QC on round 4, for instance. Of course if my opponent has a habit of leaving enchantments face down till the last possible minute, I might bring Seeking Dispel and forgo my personal attack for a round....
It looks streamlined and terrifying (it is), but there's lots of subtle decisions to make. Force Push + Wall of Thorns is a great threat to have (10 dice, ouch) but it's useless against a well armored mage, especially Vet Belt. Is it worth including? If you include it, do you ever intend to try for it? And so on.
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If it's any balm to your singed conscience, the tournament winning book I mentioned, Lord of Terror, wasn't a Beastmaster book. It was an Araxian Crown Warlock that played Adremelech or Dark Pact Slayer. It's now mostly outdated tech, but I'm fairly proud of this adaptation. Beastmaster seems to do it better than Warlock did because Kinship is such an efficient card. I'm wondering what I can put together using the whole card pool.
The Fox is a bit of a weak link at 1 armor and 8 health, because a lucky roll on an attack spell can kill it; but it would break-even on mana and action cost, so that's probably fine, even if it does cost your melee+1. Replacing it can be a good option if you're not at a point to close the game with attack spells yet. If possible, it's fun to have another one already prepares when the first one dies, so you cast the replacement pet immediately, rather than wait for 2 rounds for it to be able to attack again. And of course, playing 6 foxes is easy, but playing 4 attack spells just to kill foxes is harder (without spellbind).
(My Beastmasters go through a lot of pets. The humane league won't let me adopt anymore.)
Emphasis mine, and yes, I also wonder what you'd put together in this vein with a more complete card pool.
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... your full agro opening could go:
0. If possible, chose to give your opponent the Initiative marker for the first round. You want even-polarity initiative, so you can hit on round 3, then again immediately on round 4.
1. (19) Move twice to Near Center. Enchant yourself with [mwcard=MW1E05] Cheetah Speed[/mwcard]. (17)
2. (26) Summon [mwcard=MW1C07] Cervere[/mwcard]. (11) Summon a pet [mwcard=MW1C04]Fox[/mwcard] (4).
3. (13) Quickcast [mwcard=MW1J02] Animal Kinship[/mwcard] (5). Reveal [mwcard=MW1E05] Cheetah Speed[/mwcard] (2).
The advantage of that opening round 1 move is of course that you've revealed nothing yet to your opponent besides that you're going to be aggressive, you're sitting on 26 mana on round 2 and you have all your options open.
The downside is that you're standing unprotected in NC on R2 and that you are potentially in range of some nasty spells or attacks.
So, I was thinking of this opening :
(19) : Ring of Beasts (2) + Cervere (14)
(12) : Move Cervere to NC and Guard + QCast&Reveal Cheetah Speed (5) + move to NC + Pet Fox (6)
(10) : Animal Kinship ( 8 ) + Attack with Fast/Elusive Cervere, Fast/Elusive Beastmaster and Fast Pet Fox
(11) : Timber Wolf ( 8 ) + Rouse the Beast (2)
(10) : Attack + Hurl Boulder ( 8 ) ... ( alternatively you can continue QC'ing L1 Animals )
This opening keeps you in a safe position at the start of R2.
Just like your opening you end R2 in NC but this time you have a Cervere on Guard and you may be able to act last and thus avoid a direct melee attack or double attack spell played on you.
Offensively this plays out just the same.
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(19) : Ring of Beasts (2) + Cervere (14)
(12) : Move Cervere to NC and Guard + QCast&Reveal Cheetah Speed (5) + move to NC + Pet Fox (6)
(10) : Animal Kinship ( 8 ) + Attack with Fast/Elusive Cervere, Fast/Elusive Beastmaster and Fast Pet Fox
I tried this approach against my Necromancer book yesterday and the Necromancer was finished in R6.
The Hurl Boulders in R5 and R6 definitely giving the extra push.
Next time, the Bone Walls will come up to buy extra time.