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Messages - Zuberi

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1801
I'll agree with most of Wildhorn's points. I would say you're okay keeping the Storm Drake Hide, though. Wildhorn is correct in that there ARE more sources of Flame damage, and I'll add in that Flame attacks do more damage for their cost, however I'd argue Lightning spells are more devistating to you. They all give a chance to Daze or Stun, which can be more painful than the extra damage you might take from Flame.

Ideally I'd put in both Storm Drake Hide and Dragonscale Hauberk if you can find the points for it. This gives you versatility to pick the best armor suited for your opponent PLUS a spare set of armor if the first gets Dissolved.

Besides that, I want to give a strong push to Wildhorn's suggestion of using 1 Steal Equipment. It can be a huge tempo gain. Especially against another Forcemaster if you manage to steal their Galvitar.

1802
Strategy and Tactics / Re: Aggro, Combo, Control & Hybrid Archtypes
« on: October 17, 2013, 09:26:06 PM »
I am probably not qualified to comment on this, only having played a little bit of Magic and a little bit of Mage Wars, both only casually. I've never competed in tournaments, and am just beginning to grasp the concepts and jargon that you all take for granted (by reading these forums in an attempt to improve). However, I thought I would give my two cents.

Everybody seems to be trying to take concepts from other games (Magic, Wargaming, etc) and applying them to Mage Wars. I can understand how that would be useful. No need to reinvent the wheel if you have something that works, and using something people are familiar with will help to familiarize them with this game. With that said though, Mage Wars is it's own game and needs to be looked at on it's own merits.

First Rule of Mage Wars
When you break the game down, to it's simplest level, Mage Wars is a damage race. In a race there is only one way to win, and that is by being faster than your opponent. There are then only two ways to accomplish this:

Tactic 1: Increasing your own pace by maximizing your damage output.
Tactic 2: Reducing your opponent's pace by minimizing their damage output.

These two tactics are thus defined by how you manage your relative pace to your opponent's. We can then define an overall strategy based upon how focused it is on one tactic over the other.

Strategy 1: This build focuses primarily on Tactic 1. She loads her Spellbook with the most damaging, aggressive spells she can find and attempts to kill her opponent as fast as possible. Favors short games.

Strategy 2: This build also focuses primarily on Tactic 1 but has a strong amount of Tactic 2 present. While still loading on the most damaging and aggressive spells he can find, he also includes spells to disrupt his opponent. He favors spells that produce immediate results rather than long term gains. Things like Banish and Turn to Stone.

Strategy 3: This build focuses equally on both Tactic 1 and Tactic 2. She favors versatility. Trying to outlast Strategies 1 and 2, while trying to out damage Strategies 4 and 5. She has to know how and when to switch gears.

Strategy 4: This build focuses primarily on Tactic 2 but has a strong amount of Tactic 1 present. He tends to dance around his opponent for the majority of the game, gaining an advantage over time until the opponent is within the danger zone. He then unloads a huge burst, winning with a glorious finale.

Strategy 5: This build focuses primarily on Tactic 2. She loads her Spellbook with an answer to every possible threat and ensures her foe is effectively neutered. She then wins by a war of attrition. With her opponent unable to fight back, victory is just a matter of time. Favors long games.

Calling a Spade a Spade
Up until this point I've purposefully been very generic because I want people to examine the concepts on Mage War's terms rather than applying preconcieved notions from other games. Eventually though, we should apply names to the concepts we are talking about, and I have thus done so below. The terms I've used do appear in other similar games, but they are not meant to be a direct correlation to other games.

I believe they are similar enough so that people already familiar with other games that use them will still recognize them, but they are being used to describe concepts inherent to Mage Wars. They are not meant to apply concepts from other games to Mage Wars.

Tactic 1 = Aggro
Tactic 2 = Control

Strategy 1 = Aggro
Strategy 2 = Disruptive Aggro
Strategy 3 = Mid Ranged
Strategy 4 = Ramp
Strategy 5 = Control

Why Combo has no place in Mage Wars
Don't misread that. Card combos of course will have a place in Mage Wars of great significance. What I'm talking about though is using Card Combos as a build archetype. First off, I believe Mage Wars should remain true to it's nature as a damage race between two opposing mages. I do not support any idea of putting cards in rotation that automatically win you the game, so we can eliminate that from being a build option.

That leaves combos that affect the current nature of the game, the damage race, which means a Combo would have to focus on either Tactic 1 or Tactic 2, Aggro or Control. Thus even if the combo is the cornerstone of your build, and wins you lots of games, I would argue that your build would still fit within one of the five archetypes I've laid out rather than needing it's own "Combo" archetype.

1803
Spellbook Design and Construction / Re: Apprentice Spellbooks
« on: October 15, 2013, 08:09:05 AM »
After searching the forums, doing some research, a LOT of trial and error, I have put a plan in motion to satisfy my goals. Basically, to make things as fair as I can, and since I can't figure out what rules or ideas went into the creation of the original Apprentice Spellbooks, I have decided to start from scratch and build a brand new Apprentice Spellbook for each of the Mages. These probably won't be as well thought out as Arcane Wonders efforts, but they should do the job.

I have modified the rules for building Spellbooks for use in Apprentice Mode in the following ways:
1) 60 Spell Point limit.
2) No Conjurations or Familiars
3) Maximum of 2 Copies of any particular spell.

Otherwise, I shall follow the normal rules for Spellbook Construction. I'm seriously considering constructing "Upgrade" Decks for the Apprentice Books I make as well. That way when players are ready to go to the full game, I can simply hand them a pack of cards to add to their Spellbook and call it done. So that might be a design goal in addition to teaching the game. I'll post the results of my labors here when I have a couple Spellbooks complete.

After thinking about it, I also think I may have posted in the wrong place. Although I am talking about Spellbook design and will eventually post some Spellbooks in the thread, they shall be intended for the Apprentice Variant and will follow my modified creation rules. If a moderator wants to move this to the variant forum, or wants me to repost there, I shall do so.

1804
Spellbook Design and Construction / Apprentice Spellbooks
« on: October 13, 2013, 08:15:10 AM »
I am trying to get more people in my area interested in Mage Wars and have decided to use the Apprentice Spellbooks to teach the game. However, the newer Mages lack these handy learning tools, and I know that they would be very popular with players. I have one guy who is absolutely sold on getting the Necromancer, though I'm still trying to convince him that he needs to get the Base Set as well, lol.

Anyways, I am thinking about trying to build my own Apprentice Spellbooks for the Mages that have or will come out with Expansions. Maybe not the Alternate Mages, but definitely the other ones. In tackling this endeavor I was wondering what rules or guidelines I should follow? If the design team wanted to share what thoughts went into the original Apprentices, I would be thrilled, but any feedback from anybody would be appreciated.

Comparing the existing ones to each other, this is what they seem to have in common:
1) All have 30 Cards exactly, with very few duplicates. No card has more than 2 copies included. The books range from 23 distinct spells (Beastmaster) to 26 (Wizard).
2) They range from 56 Spell Points (Warlock) to 69 Spell Points (Wizard).
3) They all include a Chest Piece, a Weapon, and one other defensive piece of equipment. For three of the four, that constitutes the ONLY equipment they have. The Wizard breaks that trend with an extra defensive item and an Elemental Wand.
4) No Conjurations. Well, except for 2 Tanglevines included with the Beastmaster's Enchants.

So, right now I'm thinking that the big thing is that an Apprentice Spellbook should have exactly 30 cards. Just seems like too much of a coincidence that they all have that number in common. It must be some kind of magic number for including the right amount of versatility without overwhelming new players. Spell Points seem to be less important, with the Wizard having over 10 more than the average for the others, but I think I shall still stick to around 60 Spell Points. Maybe set a range of 55 to 65, allowing me some flex within my 30 card hard rule.

Besides that, Versatility seems to be the name of the game. Leave out Conjurations unless I absolutely have to have it, but otherwise include a wide variety with many options. Each Mage should have a Dispel, Dissolve, and Heal or something equivilent.

1805
Spells / Re: Average Burn Damage
« on: October 12, 2013, 08:22:55 AM »
I edited my original post. Using Tarkin's formula, I attempted to more accurately solve for the Average Damage of Burn depending on the length of a match.

1806
Rules Discussion / Re: Swapping Mages
« on: October 12, 2013, 05:54:17 AM »
Thank you guys for answering my "Meta" question. Ring's response has me hopeful that my Unholy Priest idea would be allowed outside of my gaming group but I still would like an official answer about it before I try it.

I'm going try to attend the Mace Convention in Charlotte NC next month and see about entering their tournament. Not certain if I'll have the time or funds to do so yet, but I'd like to have something prepared if I do.

1807
Spells / Average Burn Damage
« on: October 12, 2013, 04:53:45 AM »
I was doing some messing around with my spellbooks and debating whether or not to make a Priest build. In my pondering, I came up with the question "How useful is Burn?" I wanted to know what kind of bang I was getting for my buck. I was pretty sure it is worth the 1 Mana, but exactly how valuable is it?

After twiddling around with the math a bit, I had my answer and I thought others may be interested in hearing about it, so I came here. I apologize if this is in the wrong forum as it regards a condition rather than a spell, but it seemed the most appropriate to me.

So first the Math. Thanks to Tarkin, I learned the formula for Average Burn Damage is Σ(2/3)^n where n = the number of rounds remaining in the game after Burn was applied minus 1, or Σ(2/3)^(r-1). Thus, to determine the Average Damage of the Burn Condition in general, you must determine how long a game is going to last. I created a chart in Excel that listed the Average Damage of the Burn Condition lasting from 1 Round to 100 rounds in one column, and in a second column I listed the Average Value of Burn assuming the Burn Condition could be placed every round remaining.

For example: If the game had 2 rounds remaining, the Average Damage of Burn would be 1.33. That is because a Burn placed immediately on your opponent would deal an Average of 1.66 Damage over the next 2 rounds, and a Burn placed the next round would deal an Average of 1 Damage. Taking the Average of both of these values yields a value of 1.33.

I'm not going to post the full chart, but I will post some milestones from it. All of these are rounded to the nearest tenths place.

In a game lasting 5 rounds, Burn deals an average of 2.0 damage. I believe most matches last longer than 5 rounds, but it shows that even in the most aggressive match, Burn has value.

In a game lasting 8 rounds Burn deals an average of 2.3 damage.

In a game lasting 11 rounds Burn deals an average of 2.5 damage.

In a game lasting 14 rounds Burn deals an average of 2.6 damage.

In a game lasting 18 rounds Burn deals an average of 2.7 damage.

In a game lasting 24 rounds Burn deals an average of 2.8 damage.

It takes a 40 round game before Burn reaches a value of 2.9 average damage.

The maximum value for Burn's Average Damage is 3. Although a Burn only requires 11 rounds to remain in the game for that specific Burn to deal an average of 3 damage, the Average Value of Burn over the course of an entire game doesn't reach 3 even within a 100 round game. It would require a truly epic game to reach that point.

Now, we need to account for your opponent removing Burn. I'm not sure how exactly to determine it's effect on Burn's Damage, but we can look at it's effects on the game.

The best way I could find to remove a single Burn Condition is with the Priestess' Restore ability. She can remove a Burn by simply paying it's removal cost (2 Mana) and spending a quick spell. This means that your burns might never do damage, but costs her twice as much mana as it cost you to apply it and costs her an action that you did not have to take. All together a pretty solid win.

The next best way, and THE best way for any other mages, looks to be with Geyser currently. It costs 4 Mana and also requires a quick spell, but it removes all Burn Conditions from the target. This means it gets better the more Burn Conditions there are before it is cast. However, if your opponent is letting Burns stack up before casting a Geyser, he's taking damage.

As an example, let us assume that your opponent decides to wait for 3 Burn Conditions to be applied before he casts Geyser. We'll also assume that you are only applying 1 Burn per round only using your Malakai's Fire ability on your Priest. You've spent a total of 3 Mana and dealt an average of 4.5 Damage (first burn has hit twice, 2nd burn has hit once, and the third burn was just applied so hasn't hit yet). All together, a 1 Mana advantage, 1 Action advantage, and 4.5 Damage advantage over your opponent. A good investment for 3 mana.

1808
Rules Discussion / Swapping Mages
« on: October 11, 2013, 05:54:16 PM »
I know that there's nothing preventing me from doing this casually, but I'm curious about in an official tournament or something. Is there any rule preventing you from using one Mage Card with a differen't mage's Stat Card?

For instance, I have a friend who likes playing with the regular Beastmaster Stats, but uses the Johktari Beastmaster Mage Card (because she is herself female, but prefers the Quick Summoning and Pet abilities).

In an even more divergent example, I am considering making an unholy priest by using the Priest Mage Card with the Warlock Stat Card. I know that if I did this, I would essentially be making a Warlock Spellbook and would have to follow all the rules that apply to any other Warlock build. The only thing I'm really changing is how my mage LOOKS on the board to the image of a Priest. But, would such a book be legal to use in a Tournament?

On one hand, it doesn't actually affect how your books is built or played so I see no reason why it should be banned. On the other hand, I could understand it causing confusion for the other players who might not pay too much attention to what Stat Card you're using.
-------------------------------------
As a bonus Noob question, would anyone mind telling me what in the world "Meta" means? I see it tossed around on these forums a little, and I have no clue what exactly they are talking about.

1809
I'm still kind of a mageling myself, but I put teleports in all of my spellbooks and here's why: In mage wars, the whole point of the board is that positioning matters. And teleport lets you control positioning. You can split up your enemies, regroup your allies, retreat to safety, go on a blitzkrieg offensive, the list goes on.

Some examples of play from my experiences:

Breaking up Enemy defenses: I had an opponent who was turtling in a corner. Not the brightest of moves to begin with, but with 3 creatures and himself in the corner I didn't really want to go in after him. So, I teleported him out of the Zone and put up a wall of stone and extended it so that the creatures were all trapped in the corner completely harmless.

Staying out of Reach: Another opponent I went up against focused on beefing up his own melee attacks through the roof. I had lots of fun with two gorgon archers applying weak tokens to him. He couldn't decide what to attack, because every time he went after an archer or my mage, I would teleport it away and he'd get 2 weak tokens, until eventually he was completely impotent and conceded.

Bring out the Big Guns: I like to use teleport to utilize the Full Action attacks on my creatures too. It's one of my favorite strategies. Either teleport them to the creature or the creature to them depending on the situation, as a Quick Cast of course, and then immediately do a Full Action attack for crap tons of damage. Such as Grizzly Bear 7 dice or Hydra Triple Strike.

1810
General Questions / Charm and Passage Attacks
« on: June 25, 2013, 07:50:39 AM »
Reading the Forums, I've ascertained that "Controller" on charm means your mage. This means that the creature can still attack your creatures and vice versa without breaking the Charm. However, would having your mage Push the creature through a Wall with a Passage Attack break the Charm? The Push isn't actually an attack and isn't what does the damage, the Wall is what attacks and damages the creature....So I'm assuming its safe to do this without breaking your charm, but I'd like to be sure.

1811
If I remember correctly, When a mage dies all equipment and enchantments attached to him are destroyed immediately. Everything else that he controls remain in play UNTIL the end of that phase, at which point they are also discarded.

With Action Phases, it would be the end of the individual creature's action phase, not the end of the whole action phase, when the mages stuff would go away.

1812
Spellbook Design and Construction / Re: Priest Build
« on: June 22, 2013, 09:09:08 PM »
hmm, you're right. It can't. Don't know how I missed that.

1813
Spellbook Design and Construction / Re: Priest Build
« on: June 22, 2013, 06:50:15 PM »
I've run two games with the Priest deck and won both, so it's not too shabby. The lack of Dispels were a glaring oversight on my part and I fixed it after the first game, taking Sdougla's advice and removing some nullifies and a temple of the dawnbreaker. I also traded out the guardian angels for knights of westlock....but found that the guardian angel has a lot more staying power. So I put them back in and took out the gray angels instead.

To MrSaucy:
Pillar of Light is there for the daze/stun. It came in handy my second game vs a Johktari Beastmaster and her grizzly. Still, I had more than I needed in there and ditched a couple. Ring of Fire is there to answer swarms and I picked it because of the damage. Hoping to kill off all the little buggers with one hit if I can. I might look into electrify though if my plan doesn't pan out so well. Something alive and dazed is better than something alive and kicking.

The hands of Bimshalla proved very good in my first game when I had 3 out and was dishing out 11 (-2 for agony) dice of damage per round + Dancing Scimitars 3 + Temple of Lights 4. Not counting the option of Battlefury (which didn't see use). Maybe I don't play against the best of players, but in my experience, Temple of Light is a target, so I think I'm going keep the backup of it for the time being.

I think it's kinda funny that you complain about angels being expensive and then go on to recommend a bunch of creatures that, except for the archer which ties, are all more expensive. Regardless, I do now have knights of westlock in the deck.

6 Nullifies was excessive. I've cut back

I like being in their face and dazing/stunning them with the staff while I dish out loads of damage, so I'm going to pass on the bow for now. Thank you for the suggestion though. Would Storm Drake Hide be better than Dragonscale Hauberk?

Yeah, I kinda focused more on aggro than healing. Putting in the lay on hands was kind of an after thought, and it made it because it was the most efficient heal I could find. 12 dice for 9 mana ain't bad. The removal is just icing on the cake. I might put some more in if needed, but not sure what I would take out. You are right about dispel being mandatory! I was hurting for a lack of it my first game against a warlocks curses.

New Spell Book:

Mage Wars deck (built using OCTGN deckbuilder) 6/22/2013 12:00:00 AM

Spellbook points: 120 used of 120 allowed

1 Priest

---  Attack  ---
3 Pillar of Light
2 Ring of Fire

---  Conjuration  ---
4 Hand of Bim-Shalla
1 Temple of the Dawnbreaker
2 Temple of Light
1 Battle Forge

---  Creature  ---
2 Knight of Westlock
2 Guardian Angel

---  Enchantment  ---
4 Nullify
3 Bear Strength
1 Falcon Precision
1 Mongoose Agility
1 Cheetah Speed

---  Equipment  ---
1 Dawnbreaker Ring
2 Staff of Asyra
1 Sunfire Amulet
1 Reflex Boots
2 Dancing Scimitar
1 Regrowth Belt
1 Gauntlets of Strength
1 Dragonscale Hauberk
1 Mage Wand

---  Incantation  ---
1 Lay Hands
2 Purify
1 Sleep
3 Dissolve
2 Battle Fury
2 Teleport
3 Dispel

1814
Spellbook Design and Construction / Priest Build
« on: June 22, 2013, 02:00:51 PM »
I'm playing mage wars on OCTGN and have just built a Priest Spellbook. I'm not very experienced at deck building in Mage Wars though, as I only have the core set in real life (and the spellbook pack) and have to maintain 4 spellbooks for myself and my friends to play. Doesn't leave a lot of room for customization. Thus, I'd like some feedback from you guys on how I might improve the deck.

Mage Wars deck (built using OCTGN deckbuilder) 6/22/2013 12:00:00 AM

Spellbook points: 120 used of 120 allowed

1 Priest

---  Attack  ---
3 Pillar of Light
2 Ring of Fire

---  Conjuration  ---
4 Hand of Bim-Shalla
2 Temple of the Dawnbreaker
2 Temple of Light
1 Battle Forge

---  Creature  ---
3 Guardian Angel
3 Gray Angel

---  Enchantment  ---
6 Nullify
3 Bear Strength
1 Falcon Precision
1 Mongoose Agility
1 Cheetah Speed

---  Equipment  ---
1 Dawnbreaker Ring
2 Staff of Asyra
1 Sunfire Amulet
1 Reflex Boots
1 Dancing Scimitar
1 Regrowth Belt
1 Gauntlets of Strength
1 Dragonscale Hauberk
1 Mage Wand

---  Incantation  ---
1 Lay Hands
2 Purify
1 Sleep
3 Dissolve
1 Battle Fury
2 Teleport

1815
General Questions / Re: Multiple Dazes vs Multiple Attacks
« on: June 22, 2013, 01:26:55 PM »
ah...we've been playing it wrong this whole time then. thank you for the clarification ^_^ this makes daze a bit more powerful.

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