Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Rules Discussion => General Questions => Topic started by: iNano78 on March 05, 2015, 11:14:33 AM
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I can't seem to find an answer to this question... and I made sure to check the Rules and Codex Supplement this time. :D
Does reanimating the Necromancer's "Eternal Servant" get a discount from [mwcard=DNQ02]Death Ring[/mwcard]? The Necromancer's reference card doesn't state that it counts as a "necro" or "undead" spell (probably because it isn't an action), but Reanimate is bolded and all other reanimation abilities are "necro" - and the creature being (re)summoned this way is "undead" by requirement of "Eternal Servant" ("you may pay mana equal to its casting cost to Reanimate it"). The Rules and Codex Supplement refers to the "Eternam Servant" getting "summoned" to the zone it was destroyed in, similar to [mwcard=DNE02]Rise Again[/mwcard] / [mwcard=DNI01]Animate Dead[/mwcard] and cards with the Reanimate keyword, but never calls this particular reanimation a "spell" as would seem to be required to get Death Ring's discount.
For example, I'd like to have an "Eternal Servant" [mwcard=DNC09]Plague Zombie[/mwcard] in a key combat zone, have him attack during his activation, then sacrifice him to an [mwcard=MW1J20]Altar[/mwcard] to trigger his ability upon being destroyed (and to give melee +2 and piercing +2 to a friendly), then reanimate him to do it all next turn. With the Death Ring, does it cost 9 or 8 to reanimate my "Eternal Servant" Plague Zombie? It seems to depend on his "casting cost". Is the casting cost always 9, as printed on the card, or is it 8 because I would get a discount if I casted it as a spell?
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I can't seem to find an answer to this question... and I made sure to check the Rules and Codex Supplement this time. :D
Does reanimating the Necromancer's "Eternal Servant" get a discount from [mwcard=DNQ02]Death Ring[/mwcard]? The Necromancer's reference card doesn't state that it counts as a "necro" or "undead" spell (probably because it isn't an action), but Reanimate is bolded and all other reanimation abilities are "necro" - and the creature being (re)summoned this way is "undead" by requirement of "Eternal Servant" ("you may pay mana equal to its casting cost to Reanimate it"). The Rules and Codex Supplement refers to the "Eternam Servant" getting "summoned" to the zone it was destroyed in, similar to [mwcard=DNE02]Rise Again[/mwcard] / [mwcard=DNI01]Animate Dead[/mwcard] and cards with the Reanimate keyword, but never calls this particular reanimation a "spell" as would seem to be required to get Death Ring's discount.
For example, I'd like to have an "Eternal Servant" [mwcard=DNC09]Plagsue Zombie[/mwcard] in a key combat zone, have him attack during his activation, then sacrifice him to an [mwcard=MW1J20]Altar[/mwcard] to trigger his ability upon being destroyed (and to give melee +2 and piercing +2 to a friendly), then reanimate him to do it all next turn. With the Death Ring, does it cost 9 or 8 to reanimate my "Eternal Servant" Plague Zombie? It seems to depend on his "casting cost". Is the casting cost always 9, as printed on the card, or is it 8 because I would get a discount if I casted it as a spell?
No. Sorry, but the necromancer's eternal ability does not count as a Necro or undead spell (it isn't even a spell), so it does not receive the discount.
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No. Sorry, but the necromancer's eternal ability does not count as a Necro or undead spell (it isn't even a spell), so it does not receive the discount.
Thanks. That's what I figured.
Next question:
Is the Necromancer (and [mwcard=MW1C23]Malacoda[/mwcard], for that matter) immune to [mwcard=MW1E19]Ghoul Rot[/mwcard]? Unlike [mwcard=MW1J11]Idol of Pestilence[/mwcard], Ghoul Rot's text hasn't been updated to say "direct poison damage." On the other hand, maybe it isn't necessary because Ghoul Rot has the "poison" subtype. Is Necromancer immune to every card with the "poison" subtype (e.g. would also include [mwcard=MW1E31]Poisoned Blood[/mwcard])?
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No. Sorry, but the necromancer's eternal ability does not count as a Necro or undead spell (it isn't even a spell), so it does not receive the discount.
Thanks. That's what I figured.
Next question:
Is the Necromancer (and [mwcard=MW1C23]Malacoda[/mwcard], for that matter) immune to [mwcard=MW1E19]Ghoul Rot[/mwcard]? Unlike [mwcard=MW1J11]Idol of Pestilence[/mwcard], Ghoul Rot's text hasn't been updated to say "direct poison damage." On the other hand, maybe it isn't necessary because Ghoul Rot has the "poison" subtype. Is Necromancer immune to every card with the "poison" subtype (e.g. would also include [mwcard=MW1E31]Poisoned Blood[/mwcard])?
Yes. Yes.
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No. Sorry, but the necromancer's eternal ability does not count as a Necro or undead spell (it isn't even a spell), so it does not receive the discount.
Thanks. That's what I figured.
Next question:
Is the Necromancer (and [mwcard=MW1C23]Malacoda[/mwcard], for that matter) immune to [mwcard=MW1E19]Ghoul Rot[/mwcard]? Unlike [mwcard=MW1J11]Idol of Pestilence[/mwcard], Ghoul Rot's text hasn't been updated to say "direct poison damage." On the other hand, maybe it isn't necessary because Ghoul Rot has the "poison" subtype. Is Necromancer immune to every card with the "poison" subtype (e.g. would also include [mwcard=MW1E31]Poisoned Blood[/mwcard])?
Yes. Yes.
Excellent!! Thanks.
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Yes subtypes do count for exclusion via immunity. There is one exception to be aware of (from the FAQ page 19):
A hydro attack (or attack spell) which has the Extinguish trait, may target an object with the Hydro Immunity trait. If it does, the attack deals no damage or effects to the object, other than to remove all Burn conditions. This is an exception to the normal immunity rules. In this manner, a Hydro attack can be used to extinguish the fires of a burning plant object, even though the attack cannot actually damage or harm that plant
So yes [mwcard=MWSTX1CKA01]Surging Wave[/mwcard] works but not [mwcard=MW1A08]Geyser[/mwcard].
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Yes subtypes do count for exclusion via immunity. There is one exception to be aware of (from the FAQ page 19):
A hydro attack (or attack spell) which has the Extinguish trait, may target an object with the Hydro Immunity trait. If it does, the attack deals no damage or effects to the object, other than to remove all Burn conditions. This is an exception to the normal immunity rules. In this manner, a Hydro attack can be used to extinguish the fires of a burning plant object, even though the attack cannot actually damage or harm that plant
So yes [mwcard=MWSTX1CKA01]Surging Wave[/mwcard] works but not [mwcard=MW1A08]Geyser[/mwcard].
Actually, the rulings/clarifications for Geyser say that it also may ignore hydro immunity in a similar manner, even without the extinguish trait (as a specific exception for that card alone).
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I stand corrected.....page 37....
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No. Sorry, but the necromancer's eternal ability does not count as a Necro or undead spell (it isn't even a spell), so it does not receive the discount.
Thanks. That's what I figured.
Next question:
Is the Necromancer (and [mwcard=MW1C23]Malacoda[/mwcard], for that matter) immune to [mwcard=MW1E19]Ghoul Rot[/mwcard]? Unlike [mwcard=MW1J11]Idol of Pestilence[/mwcard], Ghoul Rot's text hasn't been updated to say "direct poison damage." On the other hand, maybe it isn't necessary because Ghoul Rot has the "poison" subtype. Is Necromancer immune to every card with the "poison" subtype (e.g. would also include [mwcard=MW1E31]Poisoned Blood[/mwcard])?
Yes. Yes.
Oh, I also just noticed that [mwcard=MW1E19]Ghoul Rot[/mwcard]'s text has been updated/errata'd in the Official Rules and Codex Supplement (aka "FAQ") but not in the card database. It now reads:
"Each Upkeep Phase, this creature receives 2 direct poison damage."
So now it's unambiguous... but probably should be updated in the card database (http://forum.arcanewonders.com/sbb/database.php) (along with several other cards that haven't been updated yet).
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It doesn't really matter whether Ghoul Rot does poison damage or regular damage in this case. Ghoul Rot cannot be on a Necromancer because it has the poison subtype and the Necromancer is poison immune.
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It doesn't really matter whether Ghoul Rot does poison damage or regular damage in this case. Ghoul Rot cannot be on a Necromancer because it has the poison subtype and the Necromancer is poison immune.
Perhaps, but it would still make sense for the damage type to be written on the card. For instance, if there were a creature (or conjuration) with "Poison -2" or something...
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I think that you are correct that the damage type should be written on the card, but only for consistency reasons. It doesn't actually have any impact on the game. Since the card itself is a Poison Type, it can not target or be attached to something that is poison immune. Also, Damage Type +/- X does not impact dealing damage. It only affects attack rolls.
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It matters. Consider Magma Golem (http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=14988.0). Imagine if you had a card like ghoul rot, but fire themed ("Sticky Flame"?). The Golem is immune to Flame damage, but can still be targeted by Flame enchantments. So if "Sticky Flame" deals untyped damage, you have an odd situation.
In the future, what if there is a card that is immune to poison damage but is not not Poison Immune? Best to always give damage the appropriate type.
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Very true, ACG.
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I agree that it's a good idea to have the correct type of damage on the card for consistency reasons and so that you don't get unintended interactions as new cards get released. I'm just pointing out that it is irrelevant in this particular case.