Echantment transfusion and (seeking) dispel

[Charmyna]

Assume the following:
You have a (hidden) bear strength and enchantment transfusion on your mage and the opponent uses (seeking) dispel against it. Is it possible to reveal transfusion to move the bear strength from your mage to your mage (I really mean to the same target bear strength was attached to before) and counter the dispel with this?
You might think that question is stupid, but I think there was an official answer that a spell is countered if the target of the spell is teleported during the counter spell step (e.g. divine intervention). For this, it is not necessary that the target is teleported out of range of the opponents spell, the spell is countered even if the target of the spell is teleported into the same zone it was before.
The situation with enchantment transfusion looks the same for me. I move the target of the dispel during the counter spell step, which in analogy to divine intervention might counter the dispel.
But, is this really intended? It would be a universal protection of all your enchantments on that creature. Before transfusion, there were no such protection since nullify did not protect against dispel. And in some situations a protection for enchantments has a really big effect on the game, e.g. if you protect high cost enchantments like the forcemasters force field (which can only be moved to your own mage with transfusion). Therefore, an official answer would be appreciated!

[DarthDadaD20]

First off....there are NO stupid questions-just stupid answers.

I dont think you can be a legal target in your case. Enchantment Transfusion says "Another creature".

And if you could, you would have to be revealing Enchantment Transfusion ether at the end of step one, or at the end of step two of the Spell Order and Enchantment Transfusion would immediately take effect. Then during step 3, bear strength would still be a legal target for Seeking Dispel. So it would be pointless even if you could.


And I am sure Shad0w will come along shortly for an official explanation.

[baronzaltor]

As mentioned, I dont think Transferring the enchantment would stop the dispel.

If the opponent targets the face down bear strength, and then you reveal transfusion and send it to another creature (or even yourself)  The seeking dispel is still targeting it regardless of what it is attached to.

Unless Im mistaken, the only way to use Enchantment Transfusion could be used to prevent a Seeking Dispel would be to transfer the enchantment to a creature who is out of the Seeking Dispel's range, which would invalidate the Enchantment as a target.

[Shad0w]

Off the top of my head seeking targets a face down enchantment not what it is attached to. Since the card is still face down it is still a legal target unless it was out of range of the Seeking Dispel.

[ininalia]

Sorry to revive this Threat.

But I think that the posts here are wrong (even if I would like to have them that way).
Or I´m wrong and it would be nice to get clarification.

What I´m seeing is that a Enchantment Transfusion will cancel the (Seeking) Dispel no matter where it will move the targeted Enchantment.

In the "Mage Wars Official Rules and Codex Supplement" (Updatet May 2014) there are 2 Parts that directly say that:
1] (P. 7) Changing the Range or Target of a Spell or Attack

 "A spell fails and is canceled, if either of the following occur before the Resolve Spell Step:
 1. The target of the spell is no longer a legal target, or
 2. The caster or target of the spell moves (e.g. by being Pushed or Teleported away), even if the move was to a location where the spell was still in range. (In the case of a Teleport, this applies even if the teleport was into the same zone)."

2] (P. 34) Enchantment Transfusion

"If a Dispel or other spell is targeting an enchantment, and that enchantment is moved with Enchantment Transfusion, the Dispel will be canceled (even if the move was to another creature in the same zone). See
“Changing the Range or Target of a Spell”."

Because its the Post you find if you are searching for this Ruling here, I would like to be sure that we get it right.
(Somebody in my Local group tells me I got the Ruling wrong. Thats why I looked here [and I know that last Year there where posts contradicting this one but can´t find them].)

With best regards,
Ininalia

[Kharhaz]

Sorry to revive this Threat.

But I think that the posts here are wrong (even if I would like to have them that way).
Or I´m wrong and it would be nice to get clarification.

What I´m seeing is that a Enchantment Transfusion will cancel the (Seeking) Dispel no matter where it will move the targeted Enchantment.

In the "Mage Wars Official Rules and Codex Supplement" (Updatet May 2014) there are 2 Parts that directly say that:
1] (P. 7) Changing the Range or Target of a Spell or Attack

 "A spell fails and is canceled, if either of the following occur before the Resolve Spell Step:
 1. The target of the spell is no longer a legal target, or
 2. The caster or target of the spell moves (e.g. by being Pushed or Teleported away), even if the move was to a location where the spell was still in range. (In the case of a Teleport, this applies even if the teleport was into the same zone)."

2] (P. 34) Enchantment Transfusion

"If a Dispel or other spell is targeting an enchantment, and that enchantment is moved with Enchantment Transfusion, the Dispel will be canceled (even if the move was to another creature in the same zone). See
“Changing the Range or Target of a Spell”."

Because its the Post you find if you are searching for this Ruling here, I would like to be sure that we get it right.
(Somebody in my Local group tells me I got the Ruling wrong. Thats why I looked here [and I know that last Year there where posts contradicting this one but can´t find them].)

With best regards,
Ininalia

Yes the FAQ (updated as of  2014) cleared up the topic here that came up in 2013.

FAQ is correct

[rodriguekhalil]

Ok, so let's summarize this:

- If Seeking Dispel targets Enchantment Transfusion, I obviously cannot reveal Enchantment Transfusion.
- If Seeking Dispel targets Bear Strength, then I can reveal Enchantment Transfusion and do the following:
      i. Move Bear Strength onto another creature. This counters Seeking Dispel;
     ii. Move Bear Strength onto the same creature (the text says:"you may move any enchantments to one legal    target creature"). This still counters Seeking Dispel because the target of the spell moved.

Let me know if something's wrong.

Thanks,

[Zuberi]

Page 34 of the Rules Supplement says you can not use Enchantment Transfusion to move enchantments to the same creature. They have to be moved to a different creature. But otherwise you are correct.

[iNano78]

Sounds right to me... and then leads me to a follow-up question in a slightly more complicated example:

- Creature has face-down Reverse Magic and Enchantment Transfusion.
- If Seeking Dispel targets Reverse Magic, then I can reveal Enchantment Transfusion and do the following:
      i. Move Reverse Magic onto another creature. This counters Seeking Dispel;
     ii. Move Reverse Magic onto the same creature (the text says:"you may move any enchantments to one legal target creature"). Seeking Dispel's target moved and thus it won't resolve against Reverse Magic.

Since this all happens in the Counter Spell step, so can Reverse Magic then trigger and you now control Seeking Dispel?

*edit* Nevermind, ninja'd by Zuberi.  Reverse Magic won't trigger against Seeking Dispel because it would need to move to another creature.

Hmm... If you moved it to another creature that also had Enchantment Transfusion, then moved it back with that second Transfusion, I guess you could then reveal Reverse Magic.  But it seems like a poor use of Reverse Magic (not to mention 2x Enchantment Transfusion).

*edit again* Actually, I'm in outer space because Reverse Magic only triggers if the creature is targeted by an incantation or enchantment, but here it's the enchantment itself that is being targeted... so Reverse Magic isn't going to do anything, even if Seeking Dispel targeted a different enchantment on the same creature.  So... forget everything I said.   

[Zuberi]

First off, you can't transfusion an enchantment back onto the same creature, see my previous post. Second off, if the spell is countered due to it's target or caster moving in the middle of it, then it will get discarded preventing Reverse Magic from taking control of it. Thirdly, Seeking Dispel targets the Hidden Enchantment and thus will not trigger any Reverse Magic on the creature. Reverse Magic only triggers if the creature itself is targeted.

[echephron]

I'm pretty sure that moving an enchantment mid-cast to any NEW target, counters a spell. I have yet to read others responses.

[adanaz]

It's a nice counter, providing the hidden [mwcard=MWSTX1CKE04]Enchantment Transfusion[/mwcard] is not targeted by [mwcard=MW1I24]Seeking Dispel[/mwcard].  Even so, unless the player is casting two [mwcard=MW1I24]Seeking Dispel[/mwcard]s on the same creature's enchantments, you save the [mwcard=MW1E01]Bear Strength[/mwcard] and lose the [mwcard=MWSTX1CKE04]Enchantment Transfusion[/mwcard].  Almost the same result, except that the [mwcard=MW1E01]Bear Strength[/mwcard] remains on the creature that it was cast on originally.