Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => General Discussion => Topic started by: Charmyna on August 20, 2013, 02:28:58 AM
-
The topic says it all. Is Arcane Wonders fine with us playing via Octgn?
Since there are a couple of posts mentioning Octgn for quite some time and they didnt intervene, I guess its tolerated. Octgn helps promoting Mage Wars and I met many players who tried MW via Octgn first and then decided to buy it since its more fun in real life.
-
Tbh i think they are hestitant to make an official stand point on this matter.
I believe they are somehow monitoring this and are probaly running ongoing evaluation on the impact they feel OCTGN has on their product.
-
I would think (hope) that it would actually increase their sales. As people try it out online that will make them want to buy the board game. The board game version feels so much more "real" and maybe because I'm tactile I like hovering over that board and feeling like I'm part of the action in the arena. Online is cool too though from the standpoint it gives you more people to play with, but it is a different feel.
If AW was wanting to get into the digital gaming and make their own server like MTGonline has now I could see that being an issue though for sure.
-
Yeah OCTGN is ok and good for connecting with a spread-out community, but tabletop is more enjoyable and especially functional. Navigating fanned cards gets on my nerves..
One of the most recent OCTGN updates basically made us "agree" that its consumers actually own the products they play, so there's that, but since there is no real way to enforce such a policy it's neither here nor there.
The other thing is that while I appreciate AW's PR optimistic stance on organized play, it's not the reality they make it out to be. At this early point in MW, it's more a case of "any publicity is good publicity." Challenging a social resource that allows a relatively sparce, yet dedicated community to connect with each other (all of whom seem to own the real game and prefer IRL play anyway) wouldn't be the best move.
-
I might actually prefer OCTGN as it is MUCH quicker.
No, no I was dreaming.
But it is still excellent.
There is no love from AW in the UK as yet, as far as I can see, so OCTGN is very useful for fidnong opponents.
-
I might actually prefer OCTGN as it is MUCH quicker.
I played a 4 hour grind game on Sunday on Octgn. Walls and Traps oh my!
-
I might actually prefer OCTGN as it is MUCH quicker.
I played a 4 hour grind game on Sunday on Octgn. Walls and Traps oh my!
Woulda been 6 IRL.
Just easier to set up and tear down really.
-
IMO they should have an official app anyway.
off-line play and online player are experiences a game like this should have, and could help grow the product.
octgn is just filling the void of their not being an official method to get it done.
-
The ease with which you say that assures me that you are not a programmer, nor in business.
-
The ease with which you say that assures me that you are not a programmer, nor in business.
It IS easy to criticise from a position of inexpert laziness, such as my own (!), BUT as far as I am aware, a lone guy sorted out Mage Wars on OCTGN. Lone guys also create excellent boardgame modules for Vassal. I would think that AW could sort something really good out fairly easily in terms of resources. I can understand it if they have a strategic aversion to on line at the start of the game's life and are focussing on FTF.
I can't really get my head around the lack of any on line book building or game playing from AW. I play all my MW games on OCTGN, and it has / will encourage me to buy all the physical stuff.
-
The ease with which you say that assures me that you are not a programmer, nor in business.
I've been a professional programmer for 9 years, and a game designer for 6.
I'm not really sure what you think would be difficult about designing and developing a project like this. It seems like it would be any other project I've worked on before.
the only issue that would arrive with a mage wars online app honestly would be the low player count and small fan base resulting in either no return or a slow return, but that would be up for market research to decide on, really, thankfully octgn serves that purpose if enough people are playing it that it is an issue then their is indeed a market for it.
-
The ease with which you say that assures me that you are not a programmer, nor in business.
I've been a professional programmer for 9 years, and a game designer for 6.
I'm not really sure what you think would be difficult about designing and developing a project like this. It seems like it would be any other project I've worked on before.
the only issue that would arrive with a mage wars online app honestly would be the low player count and small fan base resulting in either no return or a slow return, but that would be up for market research to decide on, really, thankfully octgn serves that purpose if enough people are playing it that it is an issue then their is indeed a market for it.
What kingrichard was snarkily trying to convey is that it's very probable that Arcane Wonders doesn't have the means to finance such a project and a partnership with an existing studio is probably difficult because of the high difficulty barrier of this game for average players.
I have to say that personally i would love to see Playdek work on this game.
-
The ease with which you say that assures me that you are not a programmer, nor in business.
I've been a professional programmer for 9 years, and a game designer for 6.
I'm not really sure what you think would be difficult about designing and developing a project like this. It seems like it would be any other project I've worked on before.
the only issue that would arrive with a mage wars online app honestly would be the low player count and small fan base resulting in either no return or a slow return, but that would be up for market research to decide on, really, thankfully octgn serves that purpose if enough people are playing it that it is an issue then their is indeed a market for it.
What kingrichard was snarkily trying to convey is that it's very probable that Arcane Wonders doesn't have the means to finance such a project and a partnership with an existing studio is probably difficult because of the high difficulty barrier of this game for average players.
I have to say that personally i would love to see Playdek work on this game.
That's ringkichard and he ain't no snark, generally.
-
I'm reminded of the fiasco that was the release of Privateer Press's army calculator for Warmachine. They managed to do real harm to their brand with that, and they're far larger and better established than Arcane Wonders.
Just pushing a poor quality something out through a contractor is one option, but getting it right is an investment. If 6 hobiests crank out six independent solutions, and one of them is good, all everyone remembers is that a hobiest solved the problem in his or her free time. If a company with established IP tries to cheap out and hire a bedroom programmer to put out a quick product, all they'll get is a 1/6 chance of success.
Magic the Gathering Online (for example) is a big undertaking by a serious group of professionals, and while Mage Wars would likely be simpler, it would still be significant labor to get right. I don't know if Alex has the rules nailed down so tightly that a program could handle all card interactions procedurally, but I do know that's a moving target anyway, that gets more difficult with each released set. Wizards of the Coast employs a full time rules manager and the full MtG rulebook is 192 pages long. That's the kind of specificity required to automate a game.
Rules are hard, is what I'm saying, and Arcane Wonders isn't a software company.
Software's hard too. Even simple seeming software is hard. Professionally project managed software is so routinely late and overbudget that the accepted method of setting the schedule for a project would be to plan out the time required for each part of the task and then to double it... except that when managers do that it still takes twice what they planned. In-house software development is no place for amateurs. I can think of few things more potentially ruinous to a small game business than independent software development.
I don't mean that the task would be impossible: there are some games coming from small studios of comparable complexity: Tyrant comes to mind. But possible and trivial are very, very, different things. It would be a major business undertaking, and I'm astonished a professional programmer would think otherwise. Even something as bare bones as OCTGN is passing the hat trying to get their network code rewritten.
-
AFAIK Octgn automated two things... Channeling and Change of initiative.
Both very simple - though its nice that they programmed harmonize on Spawnpoints and Familiars and the total Outpost count for Barracks.
-
I'm not sure why you'd assume they'd release a bad online client.
they put a lot of effort into their board game why would they put less effort into an online game, obviously they would need to go through a contractor to get it done, but that isn't always a bad thing.
some contractors are good, some are bad, arcane would need to do their research and find a good client and get it done right.
over all though that's up to them to decide if they don't have the money or the resources to go that route then just leave octgn alone, if they want to have that market for themselves then they need to invest and put the money into doing it right.
-
As cool as an online client like MTGOnline would be for Mage Wars if OCTGN is kind of filling that role they may not get a lot of players unless it is vastly superior to what is available. If they have 900ish cards to go through for various future releases, I'd rather them divert resources to making cool new mages and expansions to making a online version. If they could do both that would be cool, but if it diverts resources/time/money from the actual content that seems like a downside for all.
-
i've used octgn it's all right but it could be a lot better.
it's slow to use, and far from intuitive, a lot of manual things that could be auto, and hidden cards get revealed if you aren't careful with your token placement, grid snapping and auto resizing of cards would be a useful addition as well.
hp changes are manual when they could handled auto, and mana changes are sometimes manual when they could be auto to speed play up.
the ui could drastically be improved if it was built for mage wars specifically, and over all I believe there is plenty of room to improve for an online client, again though I don't know if it would be worth the investment, I rarely see more then 2 or 3 players on octgn, but I suspect that's mostly because it's a third party program with a rather complex setup to get running.
-
I use OCTGN extensively, almost exclusively, for my Mage Wars hit. I actually prefer that much of it is manual. It gives me that boardgame feel of turning tokens etc. If everything was automated, then I think it would feel a bit 'black boxish'.
It is CERTAINLY true that getting set up on the OCTGN SYSTEM is a bit tortuous, but the actual functionality of the game of Mage Wars is excellent, and very much replicates the real life feel. For the wargamers out there, it is more VASSAL than Zun Tsu.
-
I wouldn't think they would care too much- Seeing as it isn't a collectible game.
Collectable games hate virtual tables and shut them down out of fear of losing sales- this is not really the case with Mage Wars. (Not to mention that you get a lot of cool stuff with MW, not just cards)
I hope AW comes out with their own though using a automated system- I dont like using non-automated systems.
I use virtual table tops for MtG...but I don't like it, and only do so to test decks (and to hear jerks complain that I forgot to use a macro to switch phases.)
But I will never play MTGO ever- I am not going to pay for virtual cards.....
-
Any automation is GREAT- Good to hear.
Does anyone know where the "Get started on Octgn" went??
I can find it, and dont know where to get the MW part as a download.
-
Here it is (http://octgn.gamersjudgement.com/wordpress/magewars/install/)
-
Thanks ;D
-
I really wish there was a "test game option" I would feel alot more confident if I could play a few games by myself first. :(
But anyhow- I am up and running- Thank you sIKE- I will build a book,and try it out tonight. (If possible)
-
I really wish there was a "test game option" I would feel alot more confident if I could play a few games by myself first. :(
But anyhow- I am up and running- Thank you sIKE- I will build a book,and try it out tonight. (If possible)
I think you will find building a Spellbook quite easy. The book builder lets you sort and filter on 14 different categories including Set (Core/FvM/CoK/Promo/in the future dVM) card, Type, Subtype, School, etc. Counts are unlimited as they are virtual cards. When researching a certain build type or line of think, the filtering of the deck builder is quite powerful. You can for example search by Traits, or Traits in Attacks. So if you want to know what cards roll critical damage. It is quite easy to figure out. Of if you are building a Watergate type Wizard. You can sort and filter on Hydro and see what is out there and what is affected by Hydro (both Positive and Negative).
-
Its good- I have messed around with it a little- Love that they have the prebuilt books!
It is very,very well done.
-
Good job!
I am going to be Frank, Ok, Can you still be Darth?
i.e. whats your Octgn user name?
-
DarthDadaD20- Its the name I use everywhere. Xbox,PS3,DS games- if you ever see me, anyone is welcome to send me a friend request! (As well as OCTGN!)
Except facebook- I am TeamRocket Grunt there- I cant use the numbers on facebook......and they knew that "Darth" wasn't my real first name! (I feel bad for anyone named Darth- they wont let you make an account with that name!)
I use a fake name since my General Manager put my facebook down on my business cards...like....who the heck does that!?!?! I don't post things that any customer needs to see! And the stuff that is appropriate is my son and what not?!?!? (People, you can send me friend request there to! Just mention mage wars in a message or something!)
-
Sorry Wayne's World Reference.....
-
Funny enough- but I have gotten a few before- And I am ok with it! (I actually watched that VHS so much that the tape got thin or something and snapped)
Come bust a move where the games are played, it's chill, it's fresh, it's Mage Wars main page.
^Now THATS something to be sorry for!
-
Funny enough- but I have gotten a few before- And I am ok with it! (I actually watched that VHS so much that the tape got thin or something and snapped)
Come bust a move where the games are played, it's chill, it's fresh, it's Mage Wars main page.
^Now THATS something to be sorry for!
Hmm missed it
In West Sortilege born and raised
On the arena ground is where I spent most of my days
Chillin' out maxin' relaxin' all cool
And all shootin' some fire-balls outside of the school
When a couple of guys who were up to no good Started makin' trouble in my neighborhood
I got in one little fight and my mom got scared
And said you're movin' with your auntie and uncle in Sal-enia.
-
Funny enough- but I have gotten a few before- And I am ok with it! (I actually watched that VHS so much that the tape got thin or something and snapped)
Come bust a move where the games are played, it's chill, it's fresh, it's Mage Wars main page.
^Now THATS something to be sorry for!
Hmm missed it
In West Sortilege born and raised
On the arena ground is where I spent most of my days
Chillin' out maxin' relaxin' all cool
And all shootin' some fire-balls outside of the school
When a couple of guys who were up to no good Started makin' trouble in my neighborhood
I got in one little fight and my mom got scared
And said you're movin' with your auntie and uncle in Sal-enia.
Are you trying to beat me out of best post of the year?!?!?!
And are you shooting fireballs outside of Your school? Because that cost twice the spell points I hope you know.
-
Thanks, but I think I have hi-jacked the thread long enough here, and it is time to steer back things before the Arcane Wonders equivalent of Potter Worlds of Dementers come my way.
I do think that long term OCTGN will not negatively affect the Mage Wars and in the near term it really helps develop players that would normally not get the chance to play but one or two games a month or in some cases none at all. As for the tourney meta, I think being able to play out of your local meta gives players a leg up on play testing against different players, spellbooks built differently than your friend across the table would. I have bought much of what is out there that has been offered by Arcane Wonders and most of the virtual players I have talked with have too.
-
I think it's pretty clear now that Arcane Wonders' attitude toward OCTGN is studious noncomment.
-
I will use it (If I end up liking it) and if AW makes one, even if it is subscription based- I will move to there servers or what have you.
I really don't think anyone who is using Octgn are doing so and not investing in the MW physical product.
And I think AW knows what they are doing.
-
I was going to start up a OCTGN-Mage Wars group on FB. so we can communicate freely and plan matchups and the like-. (I know I am already on FB all the time) But I cannot do so until I have a friend to invite.
So if anyone wants to send me a friend request- TeamRocket Grunt - Then I will start a group that everyone can join. (You can feel free to unfriend me afterwords if you like, but I cant start up a group without people to invite so....yeah!)
-
I was going to start up a OCTGN-Mage Wars group on FB.
Wy don't you do it here? FB isn't searchable so people won't be able to find it via Google
-
well- almost everyone is on FB- There is OCTGN pages for MtG,ANR and others already
And people can say when they will be on- and everyone else in the group will get notifications.
Just easy- I use FB for MtG already.
-
Alright everyone!!!
The OCTGN Mage Wars FB page (https://www.facebook.com/groups/447457058700834/) is up and open! Hope to see you there!
-
Request sent.
Played my first few games on OCTGN tonight, whoo hoo! They were a bit rough, but I think I have a pretty good handle on it now. Played against Murphy and Jacksmack. Both good guys who play well. Had fun, can't wait to get more games in :)
-
Sweet! Hope to see you there! (I have only played two games, so no presser playing me!)
-
So you're telling me there's a way to play Mage Wars online?! This makes me giddy. My biggest barrier is not having people to play with consistently. So this will give me a chance to practice and get more into deck building.
-
So you're telling me there's a way to play Mage Wars online?! This makes me giddy. My biggest barrier is not having people to play with consistently. So this will give me a chance to practice and get more into deck building.
Welcome to the Darth side!
-
Still trying to find that like button! ;D