So I know that everyone is predicting the return of swarm with this next expansion (and with good reason!), but is playing a bunch of foxes against Necromancer going to be suicide? They get killed, they come back as cheep Zombies, then they get sacrificed to the elder gods to build a deathball from beyond the stars.

No, not a smart play at all IMO.  Like all books in Mage Wars, your "swarm" build would need to be flexible.  If you are playing against something like Necro, you'd probably want to switch gears and go with the "few big" strategy (like Grizzly's and whatnot).  Less targets to reanimate, and harder to kill in order to do so. 

   

I run at least one Agony in every book because it works so well against a few different builds.  It hurts aggro-rush and "one big" strategies a lot, both of which have been very popular throughout the games lifecycle. 

IMO, it's one of those cards that is useful enough that I have trouble not including at least one in every build, even if I have to pay triple for it.   

Holy mages do have a potentially good match up against Golem Pit with Staff of Asyra and Divine Intervention. Intervention is especially good because if you cast it on yourself before the Transfusion comes down you can trigger it through the Nullify and the Jinx. Just poof away like the combo never happened.

The problem is that you probably still have to fight an attrition game against an Earth Wizard, and except for Brogan, you don't really have any creatures you want to use against Wizard's Tower or Iron Golem, unless you go for legendary Angels, and those are kinda vulnerable to Turn to Stone or similar control effects. And holy has no familiars, and freshly nerfed temples.

Nerfing the Temples really hurt, especially since they went overboard on it (IMO).  Still, the Priestess can go toe to toe with an Earth Wizard fairly well, with the results coming down to who is the better player.  Even if the Earth Wizard "switches" to the Hydras and Gorgons, they're still in good shape.  Most Priestess decks I play against (and all the ones I build) have both Agony and Sacred Ground/Divine Protection in them which greatly mitigates the Hyrda's attacks (especially with a little armor).  Obviously such cards can be removed, but you can say that about anything.  And using the Gorgon against a Priestess isn't too scary thanks to her ability to remove the Weak counters.  Add in all of the Daze/Stun effects and Divine Intervention and you have all of the tools you need to beat the Earth Wizard, it all just comes down to who outplays whom.  Those games will go long though... 

Earth Wizard is certainly tough, no doubt, but I don't think it's overpowered, just very strong.  My opinion anyway.

Disclaimer: Please note that the above was just an opinion and in no way was meant to be aggressive, dismissive or insulting to any person or particular viewpoint.

Apparently I need to add that to every thread started by certain posters to avoid any misconceptions about my intent  

Wait till you see the rest of the Zombies. I think there are at least a couple you'll be particularly interested in.

Nice!  I was going to say that I was hoping we'd see something like "Plague Zombie".  Can't wait 

Guys this is my 2nd and last warning. Talk to each other like adults with no personal attacks. I will lock this and if it continues after the lock i will suspend accounts.

I apologize for my reactions here Shad0w, but he got me pretty worked up.  I was just posting my thoughts on the subject in a non-aggressive manner (regardless of how he took it), and he basically blindsided me with an avalanche of condescension and insulting comments.

I'm done here and moving on, so you don't have to worry about this continuing from my side.

When your servant dies if you pay it's cost, then you get to reanimate it. This means it comes back into play at the end of the round. This absolutely saves you the full action it would normally take to play it.

That's cool then.  Makes it much more solid.   

Overall I had hoped for a little more "wow" factor from the Necro, but it will obviously come down to his support cards to define just how cool he will be.  Still look very forward to trying him out.

Quote from: Koz on September 24, 2013, 11:50:21 AM

While this seems like a cool combo and all, I think that quick aggro would be a problem because you wouldn't have time to set up all of your tricks.  A aggro-rush Beastmaster, Warlock or Forcemaster should be able to put up a lot of pressure very quickly.

I also think a Lightning Wizard would be ok since Iron Golems are extra susceptible to Lighting spells.  After being teleported into the killbox (and the Nullify/Jinx is burned off) a Circle of Lightning would be pretty sweet (or just anticipating the killbox combo and putting the Circle of Lightning on before being teleported then revealing it once in there).  A Lightning Wizard could also cast Electrify within the killbox which CANNOT be stopped by Jinx.  Seeing all those Iron Golems standing around Dazed/Stunned would be amusing, and the Wizards Voltaric Sheild would help mitigate damage.

A Wizard running Huginn could also get out since Huginn can teleport the Wizard out.

Those are just two things off of the top of my head that I think would give the build problems.

Thanks for your post, Koz, but I never posted it as a challenge, unbeatable. Just as a strong tier 1 build that has not been beaten in my local meta. Hence why I predicted Earth Wizard to win at Gencon citing all of the above mechanics. I think (may be wrong) you predicted Warlock (piousflea) or Forcemaster to win. I appreciate that the Earth Wizard win was a different build but the principle still stands that a Wizard can handle super-aggressive.

I have even stated in my analysis against super-aggressive Beastmaster post that I would adjust my standard opening, a caveat I stated in my very first post. There is never just "one way" to play a well-built book and from the plethora of free action armour (plus Shield), with a Golem on turn 2 latest etc, please be assured that it can handle aggression. I am not saying the pressure from these aggressive builds cannot beat it. Just that in our local meta, they have all failed. Although my Beastmaster almost won (I was Beastmaster with my friend's card pool and my friend was playing my book, an older iteration with Idol of Pestilence, Deathlock, Orb of Suppression instead of the Arcane creatures).

From the tone of your post, Koz, you seem a bit riled, as if the concept offends you personally and your mission is to diminish it. I think the last time I saw you this riled was when you vigorously defended Hand of Bim-Shalla Temple of Light as not overpowered. Actually no, it was the "vigorous debate" you had with The Dude regarding must-have cards and your opinion of his Jokhtari build. Anyway, I know I shouldn't fan the flames refuting what you have written but hey, I like to play with fire. So...

I have mentioned Huginn is the combo's biggest problem, more than once, even in my opening post. In fact, it was because of Huginn "breaking the lock" that I hybridised the book into Plan B, attrition teleporting monsters. That's why I have the 2 Hydra and Gorgon, to go down a more traditional route.

I have also mentioned at least once that against Air Wizard or Priest, I forego Golems for the traditional Arcane monstrosities because of Lightning and Light issues. This was the advantage of having all 7 elites, no few bad match-ups as you toolbox choices.

I won't even mention the Forcemaster match-up, pure opponent.

As for Priestess turtling, that's what Teleport Trap and Spiked Pit is for. Although the post below is unfair as it talks about a teaching game (I knew my potential recruit liked combos so I was showing off a bit), it does show some of the tricks available.

Quote from: DeckBuilder on August 20, 2013, 08:18:31 PM

Sorry to hijack this thread but Enchantment Transfusion not needing LOS reminds me of a memorable game anecdote I have to share...

Playing Earth Wizard in a teaching game, I had 4 Stone Golems with Pestilence Idol in my start corner trapped within 2 of my own Walls of Steel! I was in NC with Enchantment Transfusion, Force Hold and Nullify all hidden on me, enemy Priestess in his start corner with c.40 life (from Sunfire Amulet, Brogan had destroyed Deathlock and other conjurations before dying to Lightning Bolts from the toolbox Wizard's Tower). Going last, I moved to FC and cast Teleport Trap on NC then QC Teleport on his mage onto my trap which then teleported him to my corner Wall of Steel cell with 4 Golems (Teleport Trap needs no LOS). I had initiative next turn. He Early QC Eagleclaw Boots (he was 3 away from me). I moved back to NC, cast Jinx on myself then transfused all 3 other enchantments on me to his mage (Transfusion needs no LOS). Unable to escape (Force Hold now revealed), he cast his other spell Blinding Flash that did not Jinx, 3 Golems Dazed, 1 Golem Stunned (+2 vs. Nonliving). But over 2 turns of attacks from my Golems was just enough to kill him (next turn, he cast Dispel twice delayed by Jinx to break the Force Hold but the turn after, my first action Golem attack killed him just before he climbed out).

Yes, I know this was over-elaborate (it was a demo to a beginner who set up a strong fort of Archers + Guardian Angels + ToL that almost killed me, saved by Voltaric Shield and Force Orb). A Spike Pit and (already set-up) Enchantment Transfusion on Nullify plus Jinx does the same thing more efficiently. But I wanted to demo some of the potential trickery in the game as I knew he likes difficult to pull-off combos.

I half suspect that someone will now say that we played by the wrong rules!

So I am well aware that zonal attacks (and worse Chain Lightning) causes problems. If you read carefully, I was demonstrating how, because these spells (and damage barriers) have become scarce in spell books (1 Ring of Fire in Warlock is about it really) because swarm is not seen to be a threat (for reasons given in my "Etherian Lifetree and Corrode" strategy thread. Because of this "gap in the meta", this build thrives. I am perfectly aware of all those Core set spells like Electrify and Circle of Lightning. Did you really think only you suddenly thought of some silver bullet that I had totally forgotten about?

Compare how I refute your claims to how I embraced sIKE's claim that Mana Denial was possibly an Achilles heel - because I hadn't played against it. Or how I mulled over Destroy Magic and gave it a fair chance appraising it?

I think what really riled me is the plain aggresive way that you responded to Lettucemode who, btw, is quite new to this forum but vey enthusiastic. I remember reading your angry exchanges with piousflea on BGG over Warlock being weaker than Beastmaster. I remember being so abrasive to The Dude in that "must have cards" thread that he even called you "rude".

You really need to stop being so aggressive and antagonistic and rubbing people up the wrong way. I know you are incredibly at it but it's not something to flaunt.

I respect your thoughts and think you are a very knowledgeable player. I am sure that in person at a Con, you are far more personable. But the way you take everything as a personal affront, and especially the way you treat brave new posters so dismissively, you really need to examine your responses and see that you are not coming off well in print.

Just chill, Koz. I wasn't dissing your favourite build. i was highlighting some mechanic issues in the game via a very strong build. The disdain that you show, I don't know what to think of it but its puts people off. Just chill?

Dude...what in the HELL are you talking about?  I was "riled" in my initial post?  Freaking LOL!  Please point out ONE THING in that post that is aggressive, dismissive or insulting of anyone or anything.  I'm not even sure how you could take it as aggressive to be honest.  Do you just take any dissenting opinion as "aggressive" or something?  Can you not handle someone even mentioning the possibility that your pet build isn't an unstoppable monstrosity needing immediate errata?  Dude, I wasn't riled in the slightest before, but I sure am now due to your RIDICULOUS post. 

I wasn't even aggressive in my response to Lettucemode, I was pointing out how he was oversimplifying my argument, and that's it.  He even responded back that I was right in saying it, so where do you get off chastising me for it?  You need to check your attitude man.  If Lettucemode took offense because he misread my tone, he didn’t indicate that, and I would have apologized if he had.  But I don’t think he did, so why did you?

But thanks for informing me that any dissenting opinion offered by me regarding any position you take will not be tolerated.  I will keep that in mind in the future and just ignore everything you have to say. 

The ability card is up but I can't link it here.  First impression is that I'm not overwhelmed.  He seems decent, but it really depends on a few factors that we don't know about yet.  For instance, on his Eternal Servant ability, do you have to take a full action to resummon the creature?  If so, its not that impressive.  Saves you on spellbook points and that's about it, although it does give a creature Piercing +1 for free, which is decent. 

As for the Plague Master, it says creatures with a "Poison counter".  So...that means Cripple, Tainted, and Weak and that's it?  A bit limited if so.  It should have been able to be triggered off of Poison Enchantments too, and it kind of irks me that it doesn't.

Poison immunity is nice though.

All in all he seems pretty cool, but not quite as exciting as I had hoped.