Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => General Discussion => Topic started by: Terrazas on June 19, 2018, 10:19:54 AM
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I’ve been reading a couple of forms and have seen some people mention a new edition. I think this would be a really cool idea to revitalize the game. So I made this post to see what people would like to see in 2.0 or how they think it could be done. Now I know that AW doesn’t have a ton of money and the possibility of this is probably a dream. I understand that, all I want to hear is ideas on what people would like to see.
I for one would like to see a more streamlined game. I don’t have to much of a issue with the rules, but when the issues do come up they can sour the game. The biggest thing is upkeep. We housed ruled it and what we said is that you the effects are resolved in the order they appeared. Example regrowth belt was placed on a mage then foul rot was revealed. The mage would regenerate first. This is how I play. Reason being it felt right thematically in our house.
Another this is that there is to much cardboard for me now. After all the expansions I think it’s just to much. If there was an easier way to streamline it I would like that very much.
Either update or replace cards that are not competitive.
I don’t think we would need a new core box but just either new rules that get updated or a small conversion kit.
I love this game and I always come back to it. I just noticed some clunky ness after PvS.
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I would be really happy with a 2.0 version of this game. The game as it is is so bloated that a well done 2.0 would reinvigorate the player base and open better design opportunities.
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I as well would agree 2.0 would be nice, lot of games wait 5 to 10 years and do one. Currently I play pathfinder and xwing both have 2.0 coming out in September after gencon
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i would prefer more cards and a few rullings than a 2.0 version.
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i would prefer more cards and a few rullings than a 2.0 version.
Likewise. A version 2 ruleset using all the old cards and mages, maybe (but then we are at least 4 versions in to that already). I don't think it's needed though. A 2.0 version of the game? No, not for me.
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Much like above 2 posts I would like to see more cards as well including the con only promos, but if 2.0 were to be done I would be fine with it as well
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I made a post like this a year or two ago. Not sure where it went.
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I would be quite sad, if my 100 Bear Strength will become useless!
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Would fix very little, unless of course the IP was released and republished in a different house. I do not see the need for it though.
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If it went to fantasy flight we wouldn’t have complaints about expansions
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Fantasy flight is actually tame prepared to other games I have played. Magic the gathering and yugioh have at least 1 expansion every 3 moths and up to 6 a year with a booster box around 100 dollars about. As far as mage wars I would like to see new content every year would be enough but maybe leak an idea of release dates of images or ideas that are being thought of so I can get excited about what might be coming out.
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If fantasy flight got mage wars I think it could be both a great thing and a terrible thing.
Pros:
-exposure to larger playerbase
-more playtesters available so that they don't have to rely on the judgment of people who haven't played the game in years.
-would be faster to notice imbalances
Cons:
-They'll likely stick to much harder deadlines. This means they would be less willing to take the time to ensure quality product if it requires going over time.
-they'll release sets too frequently. One of the most appealing things about mage wars is its accessibility to people who aren't super wealthy. That's extremely rare for a customizable strategy game and I would worry that FF wouldn't appreciate the untapped market that would give them access to.
For sure, AW doesn't release sets often enough. But if FF had this game they would likely release sets too often, and most of us competitive players would be unable to afford to continue playing competitively offline.
- they might retire the game after a certain amount of time without selling the rights to it to another publisher. IIRC this is what happened to netrunner.
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-more playtesters available so that they don't have to rely on the judgment of people who haven't played the game in years.
You really have no idea how playtesting works. I cannot speak for the activity of other playtesters but I'd imagine all of us have played a game in the last 6 months. Do you really think that the playtesters have little to no idea of the game and current meta?
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Honestly Beldin not many of us know what playtesting entails. Tbh with you the only playtesters i see playing matches on octgn regularly are pretty few. Compared to the number of them that i know exist based purely on titles here on the forums. It's mostly griz and the AD crew, zot, WK and a few others.
So i naturally need to assume that most playtester info comes from cardboard games in local metas, perhaps at local game stores, and from whatever inside info they get from AW in the form of advanced releases for cards or new mages and the like. It's kind of a ethereal concept to us rank and file down here on the ground.
He could also bee referring to the fact that since Aaron left the company it seems physically impossible to become a new playtester. So all the folks we know who do it are the same ones who have been for the last 4 years. Personally i trust ya all but i also know I've tried 3 or 4 times to become one with zero results in EITHER direction. So im sure he didn't mean anything by it. But at the same time i see where he's coming from.
That having been said i think the idea of getting AW to relinquish its best (imo) product to another company is rediculous. That's just me though
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I think the big this would consistentsy with FFG. One thing I really like about the company is the hype that ty can make for their products, how they do the previews, interviews with the designers/playtesters and articles discussing the meta. All of these show that the company has interest in their own product. As for the quality I have always thought there products were very nice and high quality, you can tell a lot of work went into it. I think FFG has learned not to throw expansions at a game in a short amount of time. X-wing was damaged beyond repair because they came out with expansions to fast, they ended up breaking the game and are now making a 2.0. I really like the idea of how they do Arkham horror the card game. They have a big box release and then every month have a small pack of cards come out. Big box is about $30 and small ones are $15. I usually find them cheaper through amazon, but that’s MSRP. Imagine if AW did something like that but the big box didn’t have to be mages. Each cycle could be themed and then smaller packs deepen that theme you introduced with the big box. Maybe introduce a mage every other cycle. So now you would get nice steady amount of new content it won’t be as much at one time, but it’s constant.
One con would be that the consumer would pay more over the long term. This does turn into a pro as well since AW would possibly make more that the game would be supported more. Anyways this is how I would expect FFG to handle MW, based off their other games. I would expect expansions to be slower then games like x-wing just because there isn’t as big of a player base.
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If fantasy flight got mage wars I think it could be both a great thing and a terrible thing.
Cons:
-They'll likely stick to much harder deadlines. This means they would be less willing to take the time to ensure quality product if it requires going over time.
-they'll release sets too frequently. One of the most appealing things about mage wars is its accessibility to people who aren't super wealthy. That's extremely rare for a customizable strategy game and I would worry that FF wouldn't appreciate the untapped market that would give them access to.
For sure, AW doesn't release sets often enough. But if FF had this game they would likely release sets too often, and most of us competitive players would be unable to afford to continue playing competitively offline.
Your Cons are Pros as far as I am concerned. In fact your Cons are what I perceive as the biggest (and pretty much only) problems that AW has.
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I think Mage Wars 2.0 would be great if it solved some issues the current version has, perhaps a new and improved rules section, trimming down on condition markers and printing cards that have been changed.
A 2.0 version doesn't make sense to me if it doesn't "improve" the game in some aspect.
New artwork or whatever can just be any other card expansion. I think Mage Wars as it stands right now is a great game where the meta is always developing and it's definitely not in dire need of new expansion(s).
Sure, new expansions are always fun but since there are so many ways to build decks with multiple mages there's no "lack" in new decks to try out.
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If they want to make a "Mage Wars 2.0", then they'll have to do more then just simple changes to various cards and abilities. Mage Wars is a 6 year old game that has a loyal fanbase, but it has a rather small community and it's too old to be expanded upon within the next couple of years.
If they could change parts of gameplay and properly advertise the game on Kickstarter or other platforms, then the 2nd edition would do well and might even put Arcane Wonders back in business. However, if they continue like they have been for the last few years and they do a crappy job on advertising the game, then they won't attract new players and it will be a total flop. Any kind of minor adjustments would only serve to please current Mage Wars players- it's not enough to attract new players to the game.
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Any kind of minor adjustments would only serve to please current Mage Wars players- it's not enough to attract new players to the game.
Or piss off current players - I think more of us are happy than not.
Realistically, it's not going to get a big fanbase now, 2.0 or not. It's a fantastic game, but that doesn't translate to a commercial game. It's also an old game and whatever window of opportunity it might have had and missed (if any) will never be regained.
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Any kind of minor adjustments would only serve to please current Mage Wars players- it's not enough to attract new players to the game.
Or piss off current players - I think more of us are happy than not.
Realistically, it's not going to get a big fanbase now, 2.0 or not. It's a fantastic game, but that doesn't translate to a commercial game. It's also an old game and whatever window of opportunity it might have had and missed (if any) will never be regained.
It won't ever be as big as mtg, but they could definitely be doing better than they are now. I mean as far as I can tell, they're successful enough that they're not ever going to have to sell the game, but they're not successful enough to grow the playerbase much. I think the only way at this point to get this game more attention would be something involving social status. Feature the game in important or presitigious public charity events, for instance. Especially the kind with a lot of nerdy gamer people. Like "free mw demos to everyone who donates $5 to the cause!"
The question is, what sorts of charities are tabletop gamer nerds likely to give to? I'm gonna have to ask silverclaw for advice on this I think.
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Any kind of minor adjustments would only serve to please current Mage Wars players- it's not enough to attract new players to the game.
Or piss off current players - I think more of us are happy than not.
Realistically, it's not going to get a big fanbase now, 2.0 or not. It's a fantastic game, but that doesn't translate to a commercial game. It's also an old game and whatever window of opportunity it might have had and missed (if any) will never be regained.
It won't ever be as big as mtg, but they could definitely be doing better than they are now. I mean as far as I can tell, they're successful enough that they're not ever going to have to sell the game, but they're not successful enough to grow the playerbase much. I think the only way at this point to get this game more attention would be something involving social status. Feature the game in important or presitigious public charity events, for instance. Especially the kind with a lot of nerdy gamer people. Like "free mw demos to everyone who donates $5 to the cause!"
Mage Wars is 6 years old- at some point, some people will have to realize that it's an old game. As popular as it was at release, this game is not considered "a gem" and won't have any kind of "old age" appeal to it in a few years time. The reason why Academy is still being supported with Mages is because Mage Wars is Arcane Wonder's most succesfull product- however, if AW continues this policy and they are unable to release anything substantial in their gaming lineup, then it's doubtfull that they'll even be a company in 5 years time due to the fact that they can't release anything else that makes money.
Continuing on trying to advertise the game through conventions and local gaming groups isn't going to solve the fact that Mage Wars' time has passed and its stardom is over. What Arcane Wonders needs to do, in order to save itself and attract more fans, is to move on from Mage Wars and start releasing good games that people care about and are actually interested in. Every moment they keep focusing on Mage Wars is a moment they could spend trying to help this company from becoming bankrupt: Arcane Wonders needs to realize that they cannot rely on just 1 game, with a diminishing playerbase, in order to survive; there needs to be better games on the lineup then just little party games..
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mw is not arcanes only product, nor is it their best selling product. that belongs to sheriff of Nottingham i think. and they have other games coming out all the time. so not sure why folks think otherwise, but they are doing fine from what i can see. now of course we are all focused on mw because it is what we all want to see more of, and the sooner the better as we have been patiently waiting for the new mages to come along.
sure the rules could be tightened up some. fix some timing issues, and clarify murky places. and perhaps some conditions could be tweaked. but i for one really like the complex nuance that is mw. i do not favor reducing the conditions, as they all make sense thematically. so separate ones make a lot of sense. the myriad allow for different logical sorts of effects. and i think a few cards could be adjusted too. i think some cards are too powerful for their cost, and others are too expensive for their effects. but not sure what a 2.0 would look like as a complete overhaul would just be a different game, and most likely watered down and just not as good a game. i do not want to see the game standard lowered to meet the lowest common denominator like the rest of life seems to be. we are all capable of handling the complexity, so we want to keep it. dumbing it down would be horrible from my perspective, and i would very much likely quit playing, or certainly not purchase any new release like that.
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mw is not arcanes only product, nor is it their best selling product. that belongs to sheriff of Nottingham i think. and they have other games coming out all the time. so not sure why folks think otherwise, but they are doing fine from what i can see.
Keep in mind that when I say "Mage Wars", I mean by Arena & Academy; so, I do strongly believe that Mage Wars is the most successful Arcane Wonders product to date.
They are a 3 person team, they struggle to communicate with their community, they release mediocre games such as Speechless (which is probably their worst game to date) with very poor advertising, and additional content takes ages to release; just because they've released 8 games doesn't mean that they have good sales. Have you seen the Dice Tower essentials on these forums? Nobody has posted there in years on that part of the forums.
Arcane Wonders is not "fine", they're struggling to get back on their feet.
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I do strongly believe that Mage Wars is the most successful Arcane Wonders product to date.
Bear in mind that Sheriff of Nottingham is stocked in major bookstores and MW isn't.
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I do strongly believe that Mage Wars is the most successful Arcane Wonders product to date.
Bear in mind that Sheriff of Nottingham is stocked in major bookstores and MW isn't.
Bookstores... Actual bookstores??
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Yes. I mean if you consider Barnes & Noble, Books a Million actual bookstores.
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The reason why Academy is still being supported with Mages is because Mage Wars is Arcane Wonder's most succesfull product
It's not - not even close.
Mage Wars is supported because it's Bryan's baby. Commercially it takes far too much time and effort for it's rewards. This is the same as CCG's - they make it profitable by churning a thousand new cards a year in a more lucrative sales model.
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Keep in mind that when I say "Mage Wars", I mean by Arena & Academy; so, I do strongly believe that Mage Wars is the most successful Arcane Wonders product to date.
Arcane Wonders is not "fine", they're struggling to get back on their feet.
You can have that belief but it is wrong, for the record.
Also, The RWBY Combat Ready kickstarter raised roughly $800K; AW is doing just fine.
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Yes. I mean if you consider Barnes & Noble, Books a Million actual bookstores.
and more importantly from a retail standpoint,
Target
https://www.target.com/p/sheriff-of-nottingham-board-game/-/A-26391267
and
Walmart
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Arcane-Wonders-Sheriff-of-Nottingham-Board-Game/44724135
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Struggling to get back on their feet my masculine buttocks lol. Dude AW does gang busters on Sheriff, Onitama, and Viral. Spoils of War and Totals are respectable as well. Something, oh something just tells me Critical Mass and RWBY are gonna be massive hits too.
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Struggling to get back on their feet my masculine buttocks lol. Dude AW does gang busters on Sheriff, Onitama, and Viral. Spoils of War and Totals are respectable as well. Something, oh something just tells me Critical Mass and RWBY are gonna be massive hits too.
Ikr? My bullsh** senses are tingling.
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Yeah, AW is doing just fine. The hard reality is that as much as all of us here are big MW fans, it takes a lot of work to produce, and doesn't bring in the big audience (and thus money) that other products do. And AW is a business.
Ironically, it's mostly the unique features that we all love that make it so. C'est la vie...
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Yes. I mean if you consider Barnes & Noble, Books a Million actual bookstores.
Well, I meant Waterstones, but yes others as well, and a small aside but if stores that sell mainly books are not book stores then I wonder what is.
These are major high street players who can easily stock or drop a product at will and not really feel the pinch of it not selling. These sorts of places also stock the Entry level games for board gamers, such as Catan, Ticket to Ride, Cards against Humanity, and others. To get to this level of stocking a game would need a 50-100k print run and are basically a success because they have a mainstream audience. Mage Wars sadly will never be at this level. The fixes required to make it so are 25 years too late, in both the card market and the miniatures market.
If we were to make a 2.0 of this game then personally think that one of the only real markets left is the digital freemium (free with pay wall microtransactions) market. However it would have to be considered carefully as MTGO, MTG Arena (currently in Beta), Hearthstone, and Shadowverse are already big players in this market.
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Maybe update the app I paid to down load would be a start
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The lord of the Rings Card Game is coming out on steam here soon. Making a MW digital game with the same amount of polish as this game and hearthstone could bring in a lot of people.