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Mage Wars => Spellbook Design and Construction => Topic started by: Diji on July 22, 2013, 04:19:45 AM

Title: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: Diji on July 22, 2013, 04:19:45 AM
Fellow Mages,

Welcome to Tome Constitution #1.

(Tome Constitution is an article series for novice and veteran players of Mage Wars. Articles will feature a custom spellbook, discuss its overall strategy, potential counters and alternate paths to victory. Enjoy!)

As this is my first article I would like to quickly introduce myself. My name is Jerome (or Dijirati if you prefer) and I'm an avid Mage Wars player! ;D I was fortunate enough to be invited to aid Arcane Wonders at this years Origins Game Fair in an ambassador, demo instructor and tournament judge capacity. I demo Mage Wars twice a month at my local game shop in the Southern Indiana area, and I also play test expansions of the game. It is my pleasure to make your acquaintance….

These articles are an eyefull, but bare with me and I know we can help each other build the best possible spellbooks.

For your consideration…

Twilight Struggle

Mage: Warlock

Equipment (20)

(2) 1X *Morning Star/ Lash of Hellfire
(5) 1X Sunfire Amulet
(1) 1X Leather Boots (optional)
(2) 1X Regrowth Belt
(2) 1X Gauntlets of Strength
(2) 1X Demonhide Armor (optional)
(1) 1X Ring of Curses
(2) 1X Elemental Cloak (optional)
(3) 1X *Elfic's Life Ring/ Sectarus, Dark Rune Sword

Conjurations (13)

(4) 2X Tanglevine
(4) 2X Mana Crystal
(2) 1X Wall of Fire (optional)
(1) 1X Sacrificial Altar
(2) 1X Idol of Pestilence (optional)

Creatures (12)

(12) 3X Necropian Vampiress

Enchantments (26)

(4) 2X Nullify
(4) 2X Block
(2) 1X Cheetah Speed
(1) 1X Poisoned Blood
(2) 1X Falcon Percision
(2) 1X Mind Shield
(1) 1X Agony
(2) 1X Death Link
(2) 1X Vampirism
(1) 1X Marked for Death
(1) 1X Magebane (optional)
(4) 2X Bear Strength (1X optional)

Incantations (39)

(4) 2X Seeking Dispel
(4) 2X Dispel
(2) 1X Charge (optional)
(2) 1X Dissolve
(4) 2X Battle Fury
(4) 2X *Clear Mind/ 1X Mind Shield, 1X Ghoul Rot (Enchantments)
(2) 1X Knockdown
(3) 1X Purify
(2) 1X Force Push
(4) 1X Teleport
(4+4) 2X Drain Soul

Attack Spells (10)

(4+4) 2X Hurl Boulder
(2) 2X Flameblast


* These spells are promo cards that are not readily available to all players at the time of this articles posting. I have listed alternate spells to consider in the case that you do not have access to them at this time.

(optional) - These are what I like to call "flex spells", or spells that (in my opinion) are not absolutely essential to the success of this book. Feel free to replace these spells with some of your favorites.
Title: Re: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: Diji on July 22, 2013, 04:22:07 AM
Twilight Struggle (TS)

The name is obviously a nod to the vampire series Twilight (which I loathe) and the struggle that is besting the resilient Warlock. This spellbook is an absolute blast to play!


TS: Strategy

Ideally, Twilght Struggle functions as two things: A Necropian Vampiress Swarm and a Life Generator. For reference, let's quickly spotlight the belle of the ball:

Necropian Vampiress (NV)

Level 4 Dark Creature; Subtype: Vampire

Cost: 16 (Full-Action)
Armor: 2; Life: 15

Attack: Fangs - Quick-Action Melee - 5 - Vampiric

Text: Frost -2; When this creature is activated, you may pay 1 mana to give her the flying trait until the end of her action phase.

She. Is. A. Beast! For the uninitiated, the vampiric trait allows for the Vampiress to heal upon attacking a living creature for half of the damage dealt rounded up.


Swarm


First, we'll discuss the swarm - how we achieve it and how to use it effectively. Lets begin...

The Warlock channels only 9 and for our purpose this is a problem, a constraint. For this reason it is a good idea to ensure that a Mana Crystal is played during Turn1. My Turn1 open is as follows:

Turn1: (19)
Hold QC
QC: Mana Flower (-5) [Starting Zone]
FA: Move1 to the left; Sunfire Amulet (-6)

End of Turn1: (4+4)
Start of Turn2: (18)

Alright, now we're working!  8) The action we take from this point is simple - Turn2 cast NV and an enchantment of your choosing (optional). You will either resolve Turn2 with no mana or with two mana remaining. Turn3 will see you channel 10 up to 10 or 12. At this point we can cast whatever we like so long as we have 6 mana at the end of Turn3. My Turn3 is as follows:

Turn3: (10)
QC: Nullify (on Warlock or NV)
FA: Move1 toward opposing Mage (optional)

End of Turn3: (8 or 6 mana)
Start of Turn4: (18 or 16 mana)

Easy. Done!

By holding on to 6 mana we're able to channel 10 up to 16 for Turn4 and that's enough to double down on the NV and reveal our nullify if need be. We continue this process of channeling 10, spending no more than 4 mana (or 5 on your second mana flower) on odd turns (3 & 5) to then cast a NV the following turn through Turn6. On Turn7 we have 3 active NV in play, 10 Mana and 44 Life via Sunfire.

Now, the question is: What is one NV's doing while we wait to cast the next one? The answer is exactly what you think: Putting pressure on the opposing Mage.

Upon seeing a Vampiress the average opponent's first thought is to neutralize and/or relocate the creature - force push, sleep, banish, tanglevine, force hold, force crush, turn to stone, teleport - for now any of those spells are fantastic because we want them dealing with the NV! If they're dealing with a NV they're not dealing with the Warlock.

*A strong opponent will almost certainly neutralize your first NV. Don't be tempted to sway from the strategy - stay the course, it will pay off!*

From Turn7 forward your first objective is enabling each "neutralized" NV to move and swing. The second is pushing each NV able to move and swing directly into the face of the opposing Mage. The third objective is advancing the aforementioned life generator components of the book. Let's get into it...


Life Generator


In the swarm section I briefly mentioned that by Turn7 we would be at 44 Life by way of Sunfire Amulet. TS can push that life much further! One option to consider is playing Elfic's Life Ring (4 mana, Mage gains +4 Life) in-between the turns your are casting NV. Now 44 Life is 48. LIVING! While our opponent is dealing with the NV swarm we aim to make our Warlock near impossible to defeat, and we achieve this by constantly increasing our life total. In effect, this forces our opponent to attempt to slow the Warlock from getting stronger and in doing so he or she may be compromised to the swarm.

Sans Sunfire, how do we go about gaining life quickly?

We take a step back an let our NV's to do the dirty work - we buff them with inexpensive spells (Battle Fury, Bear Strength, Falcon Precision and Cheetah Speed), and knock off pesky blocks and reverse attacks with Flameblasts. Playing spells conservatively this way we should net around 3 to 6 mana per turn on top of our 10 or 11 channel. Then, using your best judgement, and upon having sufficient mana (I suggest 18+), it is time to move in with one of my favorite spells from the Kumanjaro spell tome, Drain Soul. Lets spotlight this one:

Drain Soul

Level 4 Dark Incantation; Subtype: Vampiric

Cost: 16 (Quick Action) 0-1

Text: Magecast - Dark Mage Only; Place 2 Tainted condition markers on target creature. Then, caster gains Life+6.

You cant beat +6 Life! Drain Soul's +6 Life, stacked with our +1 Life per turn Sunfire and our +4 Life Elfric's Ring puts us in a very comfortable position on top of the Warlord's superior and inherent 38 Life. For the uninitiated, a single Tainted condition marker is essentially a damage token of 3 which cannot be healed and therefore must be removed by paying the removal cost (3 mana per Tainted condition marker).

Now, in the event our Warlock has sustained significant damage due to godlike rolls, rather than Drain Soul we begin setting up the healing component of the life generator. We start with Death Link on a NV - that translates into 2 healing for you and 2 damage to your NV (that she will conveniently heal off of herself when she attacks). Also, equipping a regrowth belt will double the amount of healing you are receiving, taking you from 2 to 4 healing per upkeep while Sunfire is still working in the background.

Whether you opt to go the healing route or chose to Drain Soul, by Turn10 or 11 your Life Generation should be up and running like a champ. Alternatively, if your opponent has rolled poorly against you (or not at all), skip the healing cog of the life generation and instead reach for your attack spells to end the contest quickly.

Fun Fact: I have resolved longer sessions where I have ended with 60+ life and 0-10 damage.  8) YUUUUPP!!

TS Counter Spells

I already dislike this part, reveal a strategy only to knock it down. However, Im afraid this is a necessary evil and also one that allows solid tactical play in-game to be rewarded. As the goal of these articles is to spark debate on even more effective counters I will only briefly touch on the spells that I feel cause this book some problems.

In short, Wizard and Forcemaster spellbooks pose the greatest threat to TS. This is because early on TS is a book where you have very little flexibility with your mana - if and when your channeling is disrupted prior to Turn4 you are in a difficult spot as it concerns implementing the core strategies of the book. Also, if your NV cannot swing for some reason then it is an expensive waste of arena space - enchantments like Essence Drain and Pacify, Charm and Mind Control are ones you do not want to see.

**Remember that Nullify and Mind Shield put to good use will effectively slow these counter-strategies down.**

Keep in mind that a conjuration like Deathlock will neutralize your Sunfire, Life Ring, Death Link and Regrowth Belt. Poisoned Blood is an Enchantment that achieves a similar outcome. These spells freeze your ability to gain life while also forcing you to spend resources and time to remove them from play.

There are numerous other strategies to counter TS. What counters do you think would be most effective?

Alternate Paths To Victory

To be honest - this spellbook doesn't need the NV or Life Gen to win.

For example, if you sense mana denial coming then opt out of the swarm - bring out the Morning Star (5 mana) which swings an unavoidable 4 (+1 w/ Warlock Battle Skill), then equip some Gauntlets of Strength (3 mana), a Bear Strength and go mix it up with the opponent.

Your attack spells are also very effective (Hurl Boulder and Flameblast), don't neglect them. Playing both in tandem (13 mana) ensures that you blow past almost any defensive enchantments while also potentially inflicting burn and slam conditions across 11 dice of damage. Ouch!

Beyond this, my math puts the optional spell count at 14 spellbook points and that should be plenty to adjust for what you are seeing out of your local players or to add a favorite spell of your own that I have not included. Ghoul Rot in particular is one I might have to get back in - TS 2.0, now w/ Ghoul Rot!  ;D And if Forcemaster is popular in your playgroup then grab two Wall of Thorns, an extra Force Push and Eagleclaw Boots - thats my Anti-Forcemaster/ Forcefield toolkit.

There are other creative ways to win with TS - Sacrifice 1 of your NV into your Bear Strengthened NV with the Altar then Battle Fury. Double Ouch! What ideas do you have?

Conclusion

I very much thank you for joining me on this journey through Twilight Struggle. I'm proud of the book and sincerely hope you give it a try, it is fun to play and in the right hands it can be very difficult to beat.

I'm always ready for a good constructive debate so all critiques and criticisms are encouraged and appreciated - together lets make the spell book even better! I look forward to your feedback.

Till the next installment…

Constitution 1 Signed,

Diji
Title: Re: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: ringkichard on July 22, 2013, 02:33:35 PM
You should be careful, with a name like that, it's gonna become "Twilight Sparkle" tout-de-suite!  ;D

Right now, I'm a big fan of Big Swarm style books, so I'm loving the idea of the Vampire Swarm. Up until recently my Beastmaster played 3 Steelclaw, and I'm working on a Warlord that plays 4 Iron golems(!) and Thorg. I think that a lot of players get so concerned about winning the current turn that they'd never consider stepping back a bit and re-casting some more creatures.

The big problems I tend to run into with this sort of book are Gorgon Archer and Iron Golem, or (hypothetically) Lord of Fire, or Pet Steelclaw. Any thoughts on what to do when the opponents have got lots of good creatures of their own?

I notice that you're running Sacrificial Alter, and it's not marked optional. With the recent nerf to Battle Fury, any thought to replacing it?
Title: Re: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: Shad0w on July 22, 2013, 02:38:53 PM
Good read and an well thought out. Lets see what people have to say.



@Dijirati did Andy tell you about our new tech?  :-X
Title: Re: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: Diji on July 22, 2013, 03:31:52 PM
 ;D Twilight sparkle.

First, thx 4 the feedback gentlemen.

Ring, you make a great point. Funny enough, as I was typing the article out I was thinking about the Gorgon Archer and how much of a problem could be caused by one, or worse two of them. My problem is that I, at times, get blinders to certain types of play when my play group all but exiles certain spells and the cards see very little to no usage. That said, my suggestion for this book in the face of one or multiple GA's would be to use the optional spell points to add a second or third Purify spell and continue the focus on the opposing Mage only purifying when necessary. Attack spells are unaffected by weak so Hurl Boulder and Flameblasts are still solid plays and if for any reason they're GA is shooting your NV, your in good shape as you intend to sacrifice one or two of those anyway in the late game.

To that point, I still think I will run with the Altar (in spite of the Battle Fury changes) for that sneaky big swing late in the game. It's cost is so low that it won't make much of a difference swapping it out with a different card.

I believe big creature swarm is a very potent style of play and one that has been overlooked to an extent. To answer your question, in the event I'm going up against a large creature build I would use some of my flex spell room to incorporate Helm of Fear. That will free up some turns where a creatures action will be completely wasted on attacking, I also might consider placing my NV swarm on guard in my zone while I throw attack spells until all your creatures are dead and you have no more to play.  ;D

Great thought on the Steelclaw swarm, I was considering something similar due to the fact that upon equipping the Ring of Beasts, Steelclaw's cost is the same as the NV. My thought was: Turn1 - Ring of Beasts, Mana Flower then Turn2 - Steelclaw for 16 then Turn3 - Steelclaw for 16. What do you think?
Title: Re: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: Fentum on July 22, 2013, 03:59:52 PM
Fantastic to see such a well articulated book. I find vamps very scary to encounter.

I tend to run Air Wizard control builds with flying Gorgon Archer, basilisk, teleports and force pushes. Golems for damage and occasionally a Guardian Angel to ...guard.

I came up against a couple of Warlock books using vampire and Adramalech . My general policy is to completely ignore opposing big creatures and just focus on the Mage. Typically, the vamp was battling it out with my angel, mostly battling each other to a standstill.  I gradually took away the armour and rhino hide of the Warlock, then pulled a couple of force pushes through walls of thorn for the wins.  Plus jet stream from a tower. I was happy to take a couple if hits from Adramalech as I knew I could out damage him.

How might you deal with that type of counter?

Title: Re: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: Diji on July 22, 2013, 04:22:29 PM
Thanks for the kind words Fentum!

Hard to say how I'd deal with a book featuring the creature suite you mentioned. Archer, Golem, Basilisk and an Angel to boot - with a creature team like that in play all at the same time I would fall back on the life generation and use the flex spell room for additional walls of fire to break line of sight of the Archer and Basilisk until your Archer gets airborne ;D, then I'd need to get him back on the ground poison blooded and destroyed as soon as possible. (Then curseweave that enchantment back).The other creatures I would not concern myself with too much, and I would consider knockdown and/or force push on turns where the Angel is keeping me from getting to your Mage.

Not to say that all these things would work out well  ;), this is just my snap reaction if I knew I was walking into that nasty mixed bag of creatures. Great synergy in the creatures by the way, Basilisk cripples allowing the Golem to get there, meanwhile the Archer while flying can still fire her arrows on creatures in the same zone and is throwing around weak counters like hotcakes. I like that a lot!
Title: Re: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: Fentum on July 22, 2013, 04:42:08 PM
That is exactly how this build works.

Basilisk plus mana crystal
Mana crystal plus wand with force push ( uses up an action NOW that saves an action when things heat up later)
Gorgon
Golem or angel.

I don't tend to run both golem AND angel. One or other to guard, then switch into dissolves and position control, push, etc to kill Mage.

That's the PLAN, but usually I get my backside kicked!

Still love the game. Would love a game on OCTGN if you play there?
Title: Re: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: Diji on July 22, 2013, 06:20:41 PM
I must confess, I have not yet ventured into the Mage Wars OCTGN circuit, but I'd love a new casual sparring partner. I will download the components later this evening and PM you my cell so we can set something up later this week. You'll have to slow walk me through the OCTGN mechanics ;D, but I look forward to it!

I’m sure that we will have some wild books to test between the two of us! No doubt that together we will work out some crazy synergies - and with some luck, before GenCon.   
Title: Re: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: ringkichard on July 22, 2013, 07:17:54 PM
I was gonna keep this under my hat, but I'm not gonna be at Gencon, and someone should get some use out of it even if I can't:

You know what card no one ever talks about on the forums, but might be an absolutely stellar piece of tech on the Vamp? Retaliate. It lets you double dip on your Vampiric trait and Bear Strength enchantments (now that Battle Fury can't, this is even more important) and punishes opponents who try to focus fire (which is how you have to kill a Vamp, if that's what you're trying to do). And it's not even a red/mandatory reveal.
Title: Re: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: Diji on July 22, 2013, 08:20:20 PM
Ring, I like that! The beauty of retaliate is in the fact that it is not a forced reveal enchantment. 

Guarding is cheaper to do, but as you mentioned you dont get to double dip with the attack. I would say a 4 mana cost for 5 dice with vampiric is well worth it.

Shame you can't make it to the show this year brother! Hopefully, we'll see you out next year.
Title: Re: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: Fentum on July 23, 2013, 06:47:27 AM
but I'd love a new casual sparring partner.

yes, I am VERY casual...

I PM'd you with some time slots if you fancy it. Very happy to walk through the system.
Title: Re: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: Diji on July 23, 2013, 01:09:09 PM
but I'd love a new casual sparring partner.

Very happy to walk through the system.

Awesome!
Title: Re: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: Arlemus on August 01, 2013, 05:52:11 PM

*A strong opponent will almost certainly neutralize your first NV. Don't be tempted to sway from the strategy - stay the course, it will pay off!*


I think a stronger opponent would invest more heavily into strong creatures and not have to worry about neutralizing the NV when they could just deter it (or kill) with heavy dice count.  If that first NV moves in to attack turn 4 (which is the soonest it can without movement assistance, and assumes your opponent moved towards you a zone) and your opponent is investing properly into strong creatures, it's going to face some serious punishment.
Title: Re: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: Ahlano on August 02, 2013, 01:56:23 AM
Love your spellbook... kinda feels like mine :) but i perfer more creatures, and dont have life gen... wish goran wasnt legendary...would like to do this but with him....

I have doubts.... how do you deal with forrcemaster getting un tour face... shuttting down your NV...
Also .... love Drain Soul.

Gonna try this spellbook... Great Job
Title: Re: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: Diji on August 02, 2013, 11:39:32 PM
Thx for the feedback guys!

@Arlemus - You make a good point about opposing creatures. Quick example, I played against a Beastmaster which used a similar big creature strategy using multiple Steelclaw. We both were doing the same thing. However, as the rounds progressed and I had more mana to maneuver with I was able to heal and deal damage simultaneously with Drain Soul. This put me in a very advantageous situation life-wise when factoring in the Sunfire. Also, guard is extremely effective with the NV - by putting the NV's on guard they effectively weaken each Steelclaw while remaining at near full life and protecting your Warlock. Overall though, I agree that the climb is much more difficult when dealing with other large creatures in multiples.

@Ahlano - Glad you like the spellbook, let me know how it works out for you and if there are some additions or subtractions that would make it even better. To answer your question, I'm going to level with you - Forcemaster is no joke! Her defenses make her a serious problem. My strategy against the Forcemaster is to cast the curses on her quickly (Agony, Marked For Death, Magebane, throw a Ghoul Rot in), forcing her to dispel rather than buff herself. Then move to Tanglevine to swing the defensive roll success average further away from her and let loose with the attack spells. Flameblast is unavoidable, burns are a bonus - she also cannot roll a defense (or use her Forcefield) to protect her from Drain Soul. Between two Drain Soul and two Flameblast you will average 20 damage, 12 of which cannot be healed and the Warlock will also gain 12 life (plus the possible burns). Not bad! In following turns if you are concerned about the defenses play the Knockdown spell into Hurl Boulder. Playing this way you rarely will end your turn in the same zone as the Forcemaster - and if you do, consider that you begin with a 6 life advantage and one of the primary functions of this deck is to compound more and more life on top of that. Even with a Sunfire of her own she will still trail you by a significant margin and that will be the edge you need to inch out the victory.


Thanks again for reading and commenting guys, it means a lot.  ;D
Title: Re: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: piousflea on August 08, 2013, 09:03:25 AM
Twilight Struggle is already a board game!
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/12333/twilight-struggle

I like Vampiresses and I have both played, and played against buffed-vampiress Warlock strategies. The main problem (which you already stated in the OP) is any sort of creature-control heavy deck. Each round that your Vamp spends Charmed or Force Held or Banished is a round where your opponent can swing a helluva lot more damage dice than you can. By spending all your mana summoning and supporting Vamps, you will have less of an equipment-enchantment stack on yourself, compared to most other Warlock builds.

Forcemasters can be a problem for any Warlock build. In the early game you don't float enough mana to toss multiple Drain Souls. I would strongly consider including an Enfeeble to lock down the FM while you and your Vamp walk around killing her battleforge, hand of bimshalla, and any other conjurations she has in play. Actually, Enfeeble is such a mana-efficient counter to any melee-heavy build in the game, that I try to run at least 2 of them in every Warlock deck that I play. (and if the other guy uses all of his dispels on enfeeble, now my ghoul rots and agonies are sticking)
Title: Re: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: reddawn on August 11, 2013, 06:56:54 PM
Forcemasters can be a problem for any Warlock build. In the early game you don't float enough mana to toss multiple Drain Souls. I would strongly consider including an Enfeeble to lock down the FM while you and your Vamp walk around killing her battleforge, hand of bimshalla, and any other conjurations she has in play. Actually, Enfeeble is such a mana-efficient counter to any melee-heavy build in the game, that I try to run at least 2 of them in every Warlock deck that I play. (and if the other guy uses all of his dispels on enfeeble, now my ghoul rots and agonies are sticking)

Idk, I probably would just recommend not playing a Vamp against the FM.  Her control enchants are very efficient against large creatures in particular, and sure you could try and stop those, but eventually, you will want to do something other than worry about Nullifying or Dispelling control enchantments.  This is especially true if you're playing a mage who does not naturally channel for as much as the FM does and cannot afford to break even over and over on mana.

A combination of Bats, Imps and Skeletal Sentries works great against the FM, though small creatures in general are really good vs FM, since few of her spells are efficient vs them (particularly small fliers).  Rots and Burns care not for defenses, and the little attacks either get through unchallenged, or let your bigger Mage or skeleton swings or attack spells get through. 

Agree, Enfeeble is hands-down the best curse on a FM, especially once her Cheetah Speed is gone.  Agony works great too, since it reduces dice on both strikes of Galvitar.  Outside of Galvitar, the FM has a tough time dealing efficient damage, so if you can Slow and put 2 zones of distance between you and her, she's really hurting.
Title: Re: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: Moonglow on August 11, 2013, 07:58:31 PM
Rots and Burns care not for defenses, and the little attacks either get through unchallenged, or let your bigger Mage or skeleton swings or attack spells get through. 

This statement confused me, I understood defence, but not armour, can avoid conditions (Such as rot and burn).  Or did you just mean defences more generally?

Title: Re: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: aquestrion on August 11, 2013, 08:06:03 PM
Rot and burn bypass armor and cannot be advoided
Title: Re: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: reddawn on August 11, 2013, 08:30:12 PM
Yeah, Rots/Bleeds/Burns are direct damage (direct damage = critical and unavoidable), so a Defense or armor won't stop them.
Title: Re: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: Moonglow on August 11, 2013, 08:33:54 PM
God dammit!! I love this game, but do despair a little about ever knowing all the rules and exceptions :/

Then again I've only played 5 games, three taught by someone who I don't think was too pedantic about the rules and 2 where I taught them, clearly with a limited knowledge of them all!

Hmmm guess that means defences don't work against Brogan's attack either then - I don't think it came up, as my opponent was all high armour low defence, but I remember thinking at the time I better look up what the implications were.

Thanks.

Rot and burn bypass armor and cannot be advoided
Title: Re: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: Moonglow on August 11, 2013, 08:45:25 PM
Nope I'm confused again sorry :/

Direct damage I understood was when the effect does its damage in the upkeep phase.  So I get that armour and defence doesn't work here.  Under direct damage the Codex actually says that they aren't considered an attack, so in that sense I'm not sure its correct to say that they're unavoidable, but the effect is the same.

However, I'm not so clear whether the rot/burn/bleed condition avoids defence - perhaps this is a bit semantic, but am I correct saying that the condition roll is not made and the condition cannot be applied (no token placed) if the attack is avoided with defence? 

Additionally, if the defence fails, and the armour prevents any damage, an effect roll is still made and a condition token can be placed.

Sorry for belabouring the point :/
 



Yeah, Rots/Bleeds/Burns are direct damage (direct damage = critical and unavoidable), so a Defense or armor won't stop them.
Title: Re: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: haslo on August 12, 2013, 03:01:07 AM
Direct damage I understood was when the effect does its damage in the upkeep phase.
Not necessarily. Direct Damage is whenever the card tells you that it does Direct Damage - Drain Life for example does Direct Damage as part of a normal Incantation resolution. Many sources of Direct Damage deal it in the Upkeep phase, but it's not true that all damage dealt in the Upkeep phase is necessarily Direct Damage, nor that all Direct Damage must be dealt in the Upkeep phase.

However, I'm not so clear whether the rot/burn/bleed condition avoids defence - perhaps this is a bit semantic, but am I correct saying that the condition roll is not made and the condition cannot be applied (no token placed) if the attack is avoided with defence? 

Additionally, if the defence fails, and the armour prevents any damage, an effect roll is still made and a condition token can be placed.
Yeah, if the attack that could maybe apply rot or burn or somesuch is successfully avoided with a Defense roll, no condition roll is made (steps 3 and 4 are skipped). There's no Direct Damage involved here.

The codex has this to say about Direct Damage:
Quote
Damage that is put directly on a creature. The damage is critical (bypasses armor). It is not considered an attack, and the creature cannot use a Defense to avoid the damage.
So once Rot triggers in an Upkeep phase and deals Direct Damage, no Defense (or Armor, or Aegis) will be able to avoid or reduce its direct damage.
Title: Re: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: Laddinfance on September 24, 2013, 05:33:23 PM
Got to play against this book over the weekend. Unfortunately, i didn't really get to see what it did as I came at it with an unorthodox strategy. Though it did seem to have a lot of tools. I just caught him off guard. I'm sure he'll put more of a hurt on me in the future.
Title: Re: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: zot on September 25, 2013, 06:53:35 AM
     I can attest to how much life this book can generate. I had the honor of facing Dijirati where he played this book. So much life...
I think pushing 70. It was really impressive.

    Fortunately for me, I was playing a book that was one of his bad matchups.  An air wizard. My GA started piling up weaks on the all of the NVs. And the spell that really saved me was the awesome meta of renewing spring. This spell is so strong, yet very underrated, so undervalued by folks and so few use it. I was able to both heal and ditch the taints slowly. Note, I specifically added RS because of taint. Because taints stack, one could find themselves severly weakened on max life that they can get killed so much easier. And RS allows you to attain multiple heals potentially taking the place of several minor heals in your book, with the benefit of removing ANY one condition. It is not a spell once in play, so using it cannot be nullified. MMM, life giving water. In fact I credit RS specifically with saving me on multiple occasions allowing me to get past a fury of pain in order to bounce back. For instance against a burn heavy warlock. Able to heal up some, and ditch burns. Note that also saves spell book points, AND actions to do both at the same time and not have to cast a geyser/minor heal to do that. One of my favorite spells. Awesome.
Title: Re: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: Diji on September 25, 2013, 10:36:32 PM
Yea, that was an intense bout! Shame it went to time, I know we both wanted to play it out.

I have to admit you played that Wizard very well and I did not see the renewing spring coming. Great card! Im 0-1, but I look forward to the rematch. Hope your well Tim.
Title: Re: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: zot on September 29, 2013, 01:17:35 PM
thanks man! appreciate it. took another week to finally come out of it completely. i look forward to a rematch too. i am here in indy, maybe we can schedule that rematch sometime. i too wish we could have played it out.
Title: Re: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: zot on October 16, 2013, 11:02:09 AM
   Hey Dijirati,

Matt is running a tourney here in Indy on 10.26 at Saltire. There is a thread in the events link off the main forum page. Maybe you can make it up and we can try to rematch?
Title: Re: Tome Constitution 1: Twilight Struggle (Warlock)
Post by: Diji on October 16, 2013, 12:50:54 PM
Hey Tim,

I'd LOVE to come but I'm unfortunately out of town that weekend. Matt text me about the event some time ago and I tried to see if he could push it back a week or two so Druid/Necro could get some face time but it wasn't going to work out for the shop. He said he would do another real soon, and I'll make the next one for sure.

Honestly, with the number of people in our combined areas we could get a league going that met something like one weekend a month. I'd make the drive for that. Kick that around at the shop next week and maybe see how many ppl you can get on board. Good luck next weekend brother, and I'll probably make the casual trip up to Indi just to get a few pickup games in. I'll let you know ahead of time to see if your free.