Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Spells => Topic started by: Mrmt on January 13, 2014, 01:09:46 PM
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I finally succumbed, and went 'all in' on Mage Wars - meaning I have the core set plus all the mage expansions, but no extra spell tomes. [edit I have since ordered the spell tomes]
My concern is that experienced players have suggested no deck is complete without at least 2 teleports; ie that the card is so important to winning, you cannot do without it.
If correct, this would means that after spending a hefty chunk of change on this game plus expansions, I still would not be able to make two viable decks to play head to head.
Firstly, is this basically correct? ie That without at least two teleports, a deck won't be able to perform? (If so, that is rather annoying.)
Secondly, are there plans to introduce extra teleports, or equivalent, into future expansions, in the same way as they did for dispels and dissolves? Or does one have to buy the core tome?
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Congratulations, and welcome to Mage Wars! It remains my favourite board game after nearly six months now, which is a personal lifetime record for me. ; )
No, it is most definitely *not* correct that a spellbook without at least two teleports will not be able to compete. Teleport isn't good enough by itself to make that claim valid. However. Not including two teleports is (almost) always a sub-optimal decision, and many players argue that not including three is sub-optimal. (I'm not one of the three minimum crowd though.)
Let me try an analogy: if you play a (Straywood) Beastmaster, you almost always want a lot of animals in your book. Since you're putting a lot of animals in your book, you are almost always going to want to include a Ring of Beasts. Will you automatically lose most games if you don't include that Ring? No, of course not. But the ring is so good in that combination, that you need to have a very good reason *not* to include it in your spellbook.
Teleport is like that, but with every spellbook; if you don't include at least two, you need to have a good reason not to. Here are two good reasons for you to use: 1) I don't have enough copies of the spell to use, and I don't like constantly switching out cards from other books. 2) My local meta is different from most other ones, in that they don't play enough cards that would make Teleport truly useful enough to justify the 8-spellbook-point cost (for everyone but Wizard) of including two of them.
Go ahead and create books with only one (or even 0!) Teleport, it's not going to break your game. If you ever *can* though, try to include at least two. Teleport really is useful enough to justify that, in most books.
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Thank you, much appreciated.
Hmm. So, I effectively need to buy Core Spell Tome 1 if I don't want my mages to be 'sub-optimal'? Grr.
I might house rule that teleport is unique, (unless you are trained in arcane, perhaps, in which case you can have 2), and solve the problem that way. That might even help the warlord out also. I could justify it thematically by saying it rips a hole in space-time, and it's too dangerous to do it twice.
It just rankles that they never added any extras of this 'essential' card, in the same way that they did add extra dissolves and dispels.
PS re warlord and teleport, perhaps there could be a 'extraordinary dodge', or 'terrifying burst' war spell that does the same job...
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If it comes to be too big of a deal, just pull out a few unused cards and run them as proxies for teleports until you get around to getting more.
For just casual play, theres nothing wrong with proxies, so long as you identify which cards they are at the beginning of the game.
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If it comes to be too big of a deal, just pull out a few unused cards and run them as proxies for teleports until you get around to getting more.
For just casual play, theres nothing wrong with proxies, so long as you identify which cards they are at the beginning of the game.
I just use a sleeved piece of paper that says teleport. So typically I pull the real card out to play it, and then discard the proxy, placing the real card back in my spellbook. I make a production out of it so it is clear what I am doing and I am not cheating. I do let my opponent know that I have a couple of proxies in my spellbook at the beginning of the game.
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I just use a sleeved piece of paper that says teleport. So typically I pull the real card out to play it, and then discard the proxy, placing the real card back in my spellbook. I make a production out of it so it is clear what I am doing and I am not cheating. I do let my opponent know that I have a couple of proxies in my spellbook at the beginning of the game.
Yep, I guess that works! Not completely satisfying, but does the job...
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At this time, not including at least two Teleports in any book you expect to do well is kind of a bad decision.
They're useful at so many things, like saving your creatures from conjurations (Stranglevine/Quick Sand), escaping deadly situations, putting your opponent into deadly situations, etc.
You won't need a Teleport for everything, and Force Push can act as a cheaper version of it for some things. I'd say 2 is the minimum you should have in a book (proxy if you have to) regardless of anything else, and a couple copies of Force Push can help if you don't have enough.
If your meta doesn't use Teleport for much you could probably get away with only having one...but you wouldn't be able to compete on OCTGN or in a tourny without them.
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I generally don't use teleport at all (except in my necromancer book). This is partly because I don't have enough copies and partly because my meta hasn't really caught on to it yet. That said, it is a very useful spell. It can:
- Automatically get you and your creatures out of restraining conjurations
- Let you use your quickcast to move (by teleporting)
- Force enemies into dangerous locations
- Get slow creatures close enough to attack without moving
- Lots of other stuff too.
I think the issue is not so much that the card teleport is essential as that there are very few ways to achieve that effect.
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Teleport is cool but it's not mandatory. It's kind of expensive, could backfire horribly if you target another mage, and is really most useful for escaping. Mind you it's hilarious when it works perfectly though.
Welcome to Mage Wars though, I'm new as well! What Mages are you focusing on if any?
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At this time, not including at least two Teleports in any book you expect to do well is kind of a bad decision.
This seems to be a problem for this game. Surely no spell should be so essential - at least without alternatives - particularly one for which there are so few copies in the core plus expansions.
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Anyway, who was I kidding? I found a couple of core sets on special offer and bought them. seemed it would be useful especially if I wanted a showdown between 2 beastmasters, or between 2 priests.
At least I can make a couple of mages with 2/3 teleports each now! And maybe throw in an extra gorilla...
In for a penny, in for a pound.
I am Mark Turner, and I am a MageWarsaholic.
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At this time, not including at least two Teleports in any book you expect to do well is kind of a bad decision.
This seems to be a problem for this game. Surely no spell should be so essential - at least without alternatives - particularly one for which there are so few copies in the core plus expansions.
It's definitely on my list of grievances against the game as a whole.
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In case people are feeling disenchanted by this issue, this WILL change - so stay the course, folks.
Hey, I have been one of AW's most vocal critics so if they can win me over, good things are coming.
The best bit is how they listen to their fans - which gives everyone that warm feeling of contributing.
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In case people are feeling disenchanted by this issue, this WILL change - so stay the course, folks.
Hey, I have been one of AW's most vocal critics so if they can win me over, good things are coming.
The best bit is how they listen to their fans - which gives everyone that warm feeling of contributing.
This is interesting... I hadn't realised this was a pre-existing source of concern.
It seemed immediately obvious to me this card was excessively dominant, but I am new - and a lot of things that appear obvious to new players may in fact turn out not to be what they first appear.
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Consider that not all players are playing at a tourney level. When learning and playing for fun you do not need the most optimal book.
Yes on a tourney level Teleport is in a majority of books but do you know why?
It is due to the fact it is the best movement in the game it can be used for for both attacking and defending. For 6 mana I can "move" this golem 2 zones and still attack. I am now traped by a Strangle Vine for jsut a few mana you can use tele to break the vine. The other player is out of range of your army for 12 teleport them 4 and attack.
Currently the next closest movement card is Force Push but because it is not a teleport effect when playing against a control style book it is often a dead card.
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It is not necessary to have teleport in your spell book to win, but because the card is so diverse and helpful in so many different situations that I think every spell book should have at least 1 in them. It is especially helpful if you are playing a spell book with a lot of slow creatures in it.
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How do I feel about Teleport???
Well to be honest, I probably fall into the "gotta run 2" category. While I do believe it's not essential per se, I would say that in my own experience I have never felt like I had too many, or when I played it, that it wasn't good. The fact is it's a one of a kind spell right now, and what it can do is pretty awesome. I mean it has so many different applications just by having freedom of movement. It's such a simple thing, but in this game it's so critical to be able to blink around the arena at will before you even take an action, or just blank a Tanglevine, or other conjuration that aims to keep you in one spot. Hell, I'm already feeling like Superman just typing about it.
I do feel that it should have been a Mind school spell instead of Arcane due to telepathy and teleporting being an act of the mind......BUT...... someone had to go and just make sure Arcane was going to have this little gem (as if the Arcane school needed any help...AHEM *cough*)
So essentially the question is.....Do you want to be able to do what Teleport lets you do, or not? If not, then don't bother, but if so .......well you're just gonna have to fork over dem points ;)
I think the effect of Teleport could easily be transferred thematically to the other schools if that would be good for the game, but that question is better left to the people with bigger game brains than my own.
"Shadowstep....your favorite spell now with 100% MORE DARK MAGIC!"
Oh, shut up Wizards! I can dream :p
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I disagree. A mind school version of teleport should warp the mage to the location of a mind up to 2 maybe 3 zones away, not anywhere in the arena that you feel like. In the forcemasters case you'll usually want that to be the enemy mage.
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I posted this in the General Discussion thread, but IMO a Mind School version of Teleport shouldn't be a teleport in theme, but rather the revealing of a trick you played on the opponent's mind.
I Was Over Here The Whole Time Haha Fooled You
Mana cost X, targets Creature and Zone, 0-2
Teleport target creature to target zone. X = 4 (or 5) mana per zone moved from its current zone. If any damage, condition markers, or enchantments were placed on target creature this round, remove or destroy them.
As for Teleport itself, my local meta doesn't use them much except if running a lot of slow creatures. Any Teleport Wands are terminated with extreme prejudice however.
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The answer is that Teleport is very good, because it's useful, slightly undercosted, and versatile.
Most attack/incantation spells that do damage offer a return of ~1 damage per mana. By teleporting an otherwise safe creature, or a creature otherwise unable to attack, damage is gained at the rate of the creature's attack ability. When this happens, it is often to a golem, hydra, or bear, which all hit for 6-9 dice of damage on a slow attack. @1 space that can be a 2-3:1 ratio, and @2 spaces can be 1-1.5:1, still very good. This can get even more ridiculous when a single target is moved to a space with multiple creatures that couldn't get to it. Now we multiply our ratio by the number of creatures. A golem or plant "pit" waiting can easily dish out 30+ damage in a single turn.
On the flip side, healing is worth about 1 mana per healing die. When a slow creature is teleported away it loses ~1 attack per square moved, and a regular creature without fast loses ~1 attack per 2 squares moved. Spending 6 mana against something like a Silverclaw Grizzly prevents 5-7 dice of damage. Now, factoring in armor or other defenses, this is only okay for healing. However, keep in mind this is one of many modes to choose from! Having a damage prevention choice is solid, and we're only paying a small premium over Block! (And if we teleport a Slow creature, forget it. We've hit mana efficiency gold!)
Finally, there are spells like Tanglevine and Quicksand that are broken by a teleport. This can be fine when it's just 3 mana trading for 5 and 2L mana, but really ridiculous when they can also derive another advantage out of the teleport in addition to breaking the conjuration.
Also, sometimes moving is just useful.
Teleport's by no means essential. It just offers some really powerful returns on your mana, which can be hard to pass up.
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Most attack/incantation spells that do damage offer a return of ~1 damage per mana. By teleporting an otherwise safe creature, or a creature otherwise unable to attack, damage is gained at the rate of the creature's attack ability. When this happens, it is often to a golem, hydra, or bear, which all hit for 6-9 dice of damage on a slow attack. @1 space that can be a 2-3:1 ratio, and @2 spaces can be 1-1.5:1, still very good. This can get even more ridiculous when a single target is moved to a space with multiple creatures that couldn't get to it. Now we multiply our ratio by the number of creatures. A golem or plant "pit" waiting can easily dish out 30+ damage in a single turn.
See kids....you really WILL need to use math one day ;)
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I posted this in the General Discussion thread, but IMO a Mind School version of Teleport shouldn't be a teleport in theme, but rather the revealing of a trick you played on the opponent's mind.
I Was Over Here The Whole Time Haha Fooled You
Mana cost X, targets Creature and Zone, 0-2
Teleport target creature to target zone. X = 4 (or 5) mana per zone moved from its current zone. If any damage, condition markers, or enchantments were placed on target creature this round, remove or destroy them.
As for Teleport itself, my local meta doesn't use them much except if running a lot of slow creatures. Any Teleport Wands are terminated with extreme prejudice however.
This card should be en enchantment, not incantation.
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Errata "Epic" to Teleport... Problem solved. Because seriously... That spell is epic. Low mana cost to move whatever creature you want to pretty much anywhere in the arena (depending of where you stand).
By the same way it would reduce the power of Wizard because most of its Slow creature would be put back inline because right now, Slow is not really a draw back when you can put the creature where you want anyway.
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epic to teleport would annoy a lot of players. I do agree that something needs to be done to make slow actually mean something in this game.
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I posted this in the General Discussion thread, but IMO a Mind School version of Teleport shouldn't be a teleport in theme, but rather the revealing of a trick you played on the opponent's mind.
I Was Over Here The Whole Time Haha Fooled You
Mana cost X, targets Creature and Zone, 0-2
Teleport target creature to target zone. X = 4 (or 5) mana per zone moved from its current zone. If any damage, condition markers, or enchantments were placed on target creature this round, remove or destroy them.
As for Teleport itself, my local meta doesn't use them much except if running a lot of slow creatures. Any Teleport Wands are terminated with extreme prejudice however.
This card should be en enchantment, not incantation.
Sorry I wasn't clear, it was late. I meant that the Illusion Teleport needs to be a mandatory zone enchant. Otherwise the enemy mage wouldn't believe you when you said you were "over here the whole time, haha." They'll just think you used a regular teleport and cast an afterimage spell, and they won't be anywhere near as frightened or impressed.
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Teleport was always strong, but I think it only became "overpowered" in the DvN era. So many creatures are Slow, Lumbering or Rooted, being able to move things with Teleport is vital.
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I was a very strong supporter of a couple teleports in every spellbook for a long time. But, now I'm thinking there might be builds that dont need at least two copies. Lets say, if you're a solo mage with a lot of defensive equips+enchants it doesnt hurt to get teleported that much (especially not if you have 6 armor and a veterans belt from DvN expansion). Still, teleport is useful to get out of tanglevine quickly and to keep chasing your opponent if he tries to teleport out of range of your attacks.
What I have in mind is something like my Blasting Banker build. It relies on many defensive stuff on your mage to survive long enough for building up 30-40 mana and banking actions via hidden enchants. It works perfectly and in the majority of games I dont even have to use teleport.
I guess most builds that rely on heavily equipping/enchanting the mage arent that vulnurable to teleport. I'm wondering when the Octgn meta or the meta meta in this forum will evolve to those builds ... ;)
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There will be many matches where you dont use a teleport at all.
But there will be situations where its an auto loss not having it.
Thats why its mandatory.
Getting seperated from your creatures (enemy teleport) and tanglevined in a kill zone and you just need that teleport desperately.
To sum it up - Teleport is essential to have in spellbook, but its not essential to use it every game.
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My Warlord would sign any kind of petition about "epicking" Teleport. Problem is, he cannot write (now i see reason behind tripple arcane cost :) )
Epic teleport or novice teleport could be (by my opinion) a solution, but my guess is that guys from arcanewonders are working on it or was not able to solve it yet.
Teleport wand or 2-4 teleports in our local meta is a must. I will not write here, how warlord with X dispels, teleports, mana prism and seeking dispels is sad panda compared to wizard. But as someone stated, DvN creates an enviroment when you have to teleport or you would be teleported :)
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scan popular tome cards that you need more of for multiple decks. print, cut, and place in sleeve with some other random card. Now you don't have some chintzy handwriting on a piece of paper. I have a deck made for every mage except warlord, I would have to buy like 8 tomes and have ridiculous fire logs of unused cards just to have enough of a select popular few.
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A little offtopic - I really do not like an idea of meta spells. I would like to see some cards that would nerf teleport. Some ideas:
- enchantment that prevents it target from being teleported
- enchantment targting zone, which when revealed change destination of teleport to itself
- conjuration preventing teleportations in a whole arena
- enchantment allowing to be teleported to the same zone as creature using teleportation (to chase it)
- creature doing the same as one above
- effects that damage teleporting creatures
- unteleportable trait
But with those cards I would like to see more teleportations as well
- gate which makes two zones adjecent
- tree-walk for nature spell allowing to move beetween any two trees
- some backstab (teleport for short distance making ignore guards and or deffences)
- conjuration teleportation
- teleportation of an attack/spell (something similar to reverse attack/magic)
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Those are good suggestions.
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I do not like the idea of cards that interfere with the teleport effect, and because this is a forum I shall tell you why.
[mwcard=DNC04]Grey Wraith[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MW1C05]Blue Gremlin[/mwcard]
From a thematic standpoint these creatures do not actually teleport. Take the wraith, he is a ghost, a drifting soul. His card uses the teleport effect because that is the best representation of being ghostly and drifting through walls that the rules currently support. Same deal for the Gremlin, except his theme is being scamper-y and hard to catch.
If you make a card that redirects or stops teleport effects then these guys lose most all of their flavor with the rules as written.
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From a thematic point, in Mage Wars universe, I consider they teleport. I akways imaginated the Wraith to disapear from "our" world, going on the other side, then coming back in "our" world.
I also have no problem imaginating the little gremlin pest doing some tricky magic to teleport short steps.
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I always thought of them as actually teleporting. I never imagined another thematic explanation for their abilities until just now.
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I always thought of them as actually teleporting. I never imagined another thematic explanation for their abilities until just now.
Same for me.
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I always thought of them as actually teleporting. I never imagined another thematic explanation for their abilities until just now.
I have always translated the teleport effect as the technical explanation for these thematic style explanations.
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Well, I have thematic explanations for them as well, but they all involved them disappearing from existence and reappearing elsewhere, i.e. teleporting. I never saw the gremlin as just "scampering" through a wall, or even the wraith as drifting through it. I saw them as somehow disappearing from this dimension and into another, only to reappear within ours at a different location. The Gremlin used innate magic and the Wraith traveled through the spirit world.
I'm not claiming any kind of legitimacy and other interpretations are certainly valid. They never occurred to me, but they certainly make sense. I just wanted to point out that I personally have thought of these effects in such a manner as is consistent with an actual teleport from the first time I read the cards and I suspect others have as well. Thus, any effects that treat these abilities as normal teleports would not necessarily break with theme or flavor.
I think we can agree that the teleport effect in general could afford to be nerfed. Whether these creatures need to suffer from that nerf is debatable, but however the line ends up being drawn I think we will be able to justify things thematically either way. I may have to adjust my thinking for why the nerf does not affect them, while others may have to adjust their thinking for why the nerf does affect them, depending on whatever actually occurs. But either way, there will exist sensible explanations for us to adopt.
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The new comprehensive codex talks about teleport effect and teleport ability.... hmmm actually it doesnt, but I'm sure I've read it somewhere.... I was wondering if that helped balance the idea that spells could nerf teleport effect, without hurting creatures with the teleport ability. But without having a source for the distinction its probably not that helpful...
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The new comprehensive codex talks about teleport effect and teleport ability.... hmmm actually it doesnt, but I'm sure I've read it somewhere.... I was wondering if that helped balance the idea that spells could nerf teleport effect, without hurting creatures with the teleport ability. But without having a source for the distinction its probably not that helpful...
This may help
@Isel
This has been answered before. In fact you had asked this before. :o
Several clarifications (http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=13598.msg29629#msg29629)
This is the second time. Can you please run a search before asking a question.
Teleport clarification (http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=12804.msg19401#msg19401)
Blue Gremlin and Teleport (http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=2137.msg21971#msg21971)
TELEPORT (http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=6134.msg6277#msg6277)
Teleport and LOS (http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=1986.msg19955#msg19955)
It only Matters that the mage Has LoS to the Creature and the Destination Zone. The Teleported creature could have three sides of its zone walled off, but there would stil be at least two other zones that would have a LoS to that Zone. The wizard casting Teleport would have to be in one of those zones to move that Creature.
Hedge
Spell : Teleport
Target creature must be within 0-2 zone away from the caster and in LOS. Target destination zone also be 0-2 zone away from the caster (not from targed creature) and also in LOS.
Since it has been askied so many times even via PM I am posting this here.This was just asked again... :o
- Can use teleport of my gremlin to pass through a wall?
Yes.
The teleport ability does not require LoS to use.
- Can i use teleport to go more than 2 zones far the caster?
Teleport has 2 targets one is the zone and the second is the creature you are teleporting.
- Can i teleport if i don´t see the zone for a wall?
It depends Teleport spell requires LoS. Teleport ability does not require LoS.
- teleport trap trigger with teleport?
Teleport Trap triggers anyway the creature enters the zone. Excluding summoning.
- Can i teleport a huge monster that its to the other face of a wall?
(torgorath) (maybe a rule in the future that if a monster have more than x life can see over walls for its size.
It depends Teleport spell requires LoS. Teleport ability does not require LoS.
Both are from Asking for a clarification of Teleport (http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=13833.msg32972#msg32972)
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Thanks Shadow - yeah I remember reading them. It doesn't help this discussion so much as they aren't game terms that cards can leverage off, more umm forum terms that help clarify game mechanics - at least as I've understood it. So a card that said something like "prevents all teleport spells", doesn't have the FAQ or codex info (at present) to define that the terms only refer to teleport spells distinct from teleport abilities...
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There is no distinction between teleport "abilities" and "spells", as you put it. There is only the teleport effect and cards that grant it. Some are creatures, some are not. The spell Teleport could be named "Grwwffttyqq" instead and it would still do the exact same thing.
And c'mon, you guys. Teleporting wraiths? Do flying creatures also disappear from one zone and reappear in the next when they move? After all, they ignore walls and a creature can't be "in between" zones, it's either in one or the other. Do the mages and creatures in the arena just sit around and let each other take their turns? That's how the rules work, so that must also be how the "real" thing works, right?
All game rules are representations of the scenario they are attempting to portray, and they all break down at some point. Gremlin and Wraith having access to teleport is one of these points. Like sIKE said, the technical explanation for thematic style. I think you are letting the game mechanisms influence your interpretation of the lore, rather than the other way around which is the way Mage Wars strives to do things.
All that to say: unless AW were to release some terribly inelegant cards, they can't restrict the teleport effect without also affecting these creatures and spells like Divine Intervention ("nope, you have to teleport your creature to this zone instead, sorry"). Including any future spells which may use teleport in new interesting ways.
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There is no distinction between teleport "abilities" and "spells", as you put it. There is only the teleport effect and cards that grant it. Some are creatures, some are not. The spell Teleport could be named "Grwwffttyqq" instead and it would still do the exact same thing.
And c'mon, you guys. Teleporting wraiths? Do flying creatures also disappear from one zone and reappear in the next when they move? After all, they ignore walls and a creature can't be "in between" zones, it's either in one or the other. Do the mages and creatures in the arena just sit around and let each other take their turns? That's how the rules work, so that must also be how the "real" thing works, right?
All game rules are representations of the scenario they are attempting to portray, and they all break down at some point. Gremlin and Wraith having access to teleport is one of these points. Like sIKE said, the technical explanation for thematic style. I think you are letting the game mechanisms influence your interpretation of the lore, rather than the other way around which is the way Mage Wars strives to do things.
All that to say: unless AW were to release some terribly inelegant cards, they can't restrict the teleport effect without also affecting these creatures and spells like Divine Intervention ("nope, you have to teleport your creature to this zone instead, sorry"). Including any future spells which may use teleport in new interesting ways.
I agree with lettuce here, all though Divine Intervention maybe a bad example as it is the hand of a god, and as we all know you don't mess with Mother Nature....
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@lettucemode: Yes teleportig Wraith, throu the "spirit land". You know, like in those horror movies where the ghost get closer in the hallway everytime there is a lightning or you blink. That is how I was seeing them.
And for Gremlins, I was seeing them like some kind of annoying leprechum that teleport on your shoulder, you try to catch it, oh no it is on you head now, trying to catch it again, nope, on your back now.
Teleporting all made sense to me for these creature.
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As I said, there is nothing wrong with your interpretation lettucemode. I just don't understand why you feel my interpretation is wrong. I've played many games of D&D with ghosts and other creatures that blinked in and out of existence before. It makes perfect sense to me thematically that some creatures are able to do this. Wildhorn's descriptions are exactly what I was picturing, and I fail to see how they are less thematic than what you have suggested.
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@lettucemode: Yes teleportig Wraith, throu the "spirit land". You know, like in those horror movies where the ghost get closer in the hallway everytime there is a lightning or you blink. That is how I was seeing them.
And for Gremlins, I was seeing them like some kind of annoying leprechum that teleport on your shoulder, you try to catch it, oh no it is on you head now, trying to catch it again, nope, on your back now.
Teleporting all made sense to me for these creature.
Same here for the gremlin (haven't played with the wraith). Although my precise image is of the gremlin disappearing in a flash of blue light and reappearing elsewhere. Particularly because it's paid for, I think that suggests it's magic rather than just agility.
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Congratulations, and welcome to Mage Wars! It remains my favourite board game after nearly six months now, which is a personal lifetime record for me. ; )
No, it is most definitely *not* correct that a spellbook without at least two teleports will not be able to compete. Teleport isn't good enough by itself to make that claim valid. However. Not including two teleports is (almost) always a sub-optimal decision, and many players argue that not including three is sub-optimal. (I'm not one of the three minimum crowd though.)
Let me try an analogy: if you play a (Straywood) Beastmaster, you almost always want a lot of animals in your book. Since you're putting a lot of animals in your book, you are almost always going to want to include a Ring of Beasts. Will you automatically lose most games if you don't include that Ring? No, of course not. But the ring is so good in that combination, that you need to have a very good reason *not* to include it in your spellbook.
Teleport is like that, but with every spellbook; if you don't include at least two, you need to have a good reason not to. Here are two good reasons for you to use: 1) I don't have enough copies of the spell to use, and I don't like constantly switching out cards from other books. 2) My local meta is different from most other ones, in that they don't play enough cards that would make Teleport truly useful enough to justify the 8-spellbook-point cost (for everyone but Wizard) of including two of them.
Go ahead and create books with only one (or even 0!) Teleport, it's not going to break your game. If you ever *can* though, try to include at least two. Teleport really is useful enough to justify that, in most books.
Without having read further up the thread for this, I will perhaps be going against the stream of comments. I do not think you have to have any teleports in your book. It really depends on what you are trying to accomplish with your chosen mage whether to include any. Is teleport a useful spell - sure it is. Is it required to have one, or more - no it is not. I would go further and say that while you can get away without them depending on your local players styles, it still holds that beyond your local group you can also skip them. You do need to be wary of things like strangle vine, and plan accordingly. But teleport is a utility spell, and has random applicability. You also need to be aware your opponent could be playing it, and might play one on you or himself etc.
I expect I will get jumped on for the above. I believe I am a decent player, and I rarely include teleport in any of my books - including my tournement viable builds. My local play groups includes some very strong players.
So be aware there are varied opinions on this, and you just need to form your own.
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Errata "Epic" to Teleport... Problem solved. Because seriously... That spell is epic. Low mana cost to move whatever creature you want to pretty much anywhere in the arena (depending of where you stand).
By the same way it would reduce the power of Wizard because most of its Slow creature would be put back inline because right now, Slow is not really a draw back when you can put the creature where you want anyway.
Completely disagree.
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I was a very strong supporter of a couple teleports in every spellbook for a long time. But, now I'm thinking there might be builds that dont need at least two copies. Lets say, if you're a solo mage with a lot of defensive equips+enchants it doesnt hurt to get teleported that much (especially not if you have 6 armor and a veterans belt from DvN expansion). Still, teleport is useful to get out of tanglevine quickly and to keep chasing your opponent if he tries to teleport out of range of your attacks.
What I have in mind is something like my Blasting Banker build. It relies on many defensive stuff on your mage to survive long enough for building up 30-40 mana and banking actions via hidden enchants. It works perfectly and in the majority of games I dont even have to use teleport.
I guess most builds that rely on heavily equipping/enchanting the mage arent that vulnurable to teleport. I'm wondering when the Octgn meta or the meta meta in this forum will evolve to those builds ... ;)
Excellent! Thank you.
I agree, and I have not had a lot of time for several months to get on octgn or perhaps you would have seen some from me.
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There will be many matches where you dont use a teleport at all.
But there will be situations where its an auto loss not having it.
Thats why its mandatory.
Getting seperated from your creatures (enemy teleport) and tanglevined in a kill zone and you just need that teleport desperately.
To sum it up - Teleport is essential to have in spellbook, but its not essential to use it every game.
There will be many matches where you dont use a teleport at all.
But there will be situations where its an auto loss not having it.
Thats why its mandatory.
Getting seperated from your creatures (enemy teleport) and tanglevined in a kill zone and you just need that teleport desperately.
To sum it up - Teleport is essential to have in spellbook, but its not essential to use it every game.
I would think if you are in an autoloss situation, perhaps you could have made different choices during play earlier to have avoided or diminished the threat. But sometimes you do get into a bad matchup and a teleport only delays the inevitable.
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In a game where tactical positioning is as important as it is in Mage Wars, being able to control that positioning can give you a huge advantage. There are lots of spells that allow you to restrict an opponents movement, but very few that actually allow you to move both your creatures and your opponents to where you need them. I believe Push is a viable alternative to Teleport, but currently it can be neutered by the Unmovable trait. Teleport has no such antithesis, which makes it inherently better.
Building a book without any ability to control positioning would put you at a severe handicap. And in the battle to control positioning, Teleport is indisputably the best tool for the job. It's application is not random, it is tactical and has a big impact on game play. The only time you would not want to have control over positions, that I can think of, is if everyone is simply piled in the same zone beating on each other. And if that is the case, you are missing out on a lot that this game has to offer.
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I find teleport especially useful for either moving my opponents mage to one of my creatures that I want to use a full attack on or moving that creature to the enemy mage. Teleport plus double strike using the blade master has won me more than one game.