To the players of group 4 I havent had the pleasure to play with yet: Can you please contact me via the Forum or Octgn (nick is charmyna too) and send me the times during which you are available?

Looking forward to our matches!

Quote from: Charmyna on December 11, 2016, 04:11:16 PM

Is it possible to counter the opponents Chant of Rage with my own Chant of Rage?
Let's say my opponent plays Siren and I play Paladin. My opponent put a Chant of Rage on my Cassiel and put a Hate token on his Deptonne Berserker. Now, I play Chant of Rage on his Naiya and put a Rage Token on my Metatron. Since Metatron has a  Rage token and Chant of Rage does not mention whether the "hated" creature has to be an enemy creature, am I free to choose Metatron as the "hated" creature while using my Cassiels Action?
The reason I ask is not because I want to attack my own creature . I imagine a situation in which I use Metatron to allow the enchanted Cassiel to move in the direction that I choose by moving Metatron instead of the direction my opponent dictates by positioning his Deptonne Berserker.
This question might sound strange at first glance, but from my imagination it could become quite important in games once Chant of Rage is used heavily.

Offtopic: Sorry for being absent most of the time. I really love this game, so I will always come back from time to time when RL is opening up possibilities .

Wait! Before you disappear from this world to return to RL for another couple years, I have a question for you!

...Have you ever played Mage Wars Academy?


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. I havent had the pleasure. But I can imagine its quite fun. In the future I hope the Academy format will be an excellent alternative for competitive play and streaming.

Is it possible to counter the opponents Chant of Rage with my own Chant of Rage?
Let's say my opponent plays Siren and I play Paladin. My opponent put a Chant of Rage on my Cassiel and put a Hate token on his Deptonne Berserker. Now, I play Chant of Rage on his Naiya and put a Rage Token on my Metatron. Since Metatron has a  Rage token and Chant of Rage does not mention whether the "hated" creature has to be an enemy creature, am I free to choose Metatron as the "hated" creature while using my Cassiels Action?
The reason I ask is not because I want to attack my own creature . I imagine a situation in which I use Metatron to allow the enchanted Cassiel to move in the direction that I choose by moving Metatron instead of the direction my opponent dictates by positioning his Deptonne Berserker.
This question might sound strange at first glance, but from my imagination it could become quite important in games once Chant of Rage is used heavily.

Offtopic: Sorry for being absent most of the time. I really love this game, so I will always come back from time to time when RL is opening up possibilities .

Yeah sorry for the passive play. With the rolls at the beginning I got so much under pressure that I had to play this way. If this tourney showed one thing, it is that we need more counters to tanky strategies - especially tanky wizards with voltaric shield. I hope some of the academy cards will help here.
In the final game of the finals we will both have to play with our second build. You will see Necro vs FM .

I really like your strategy, especially the idea of not using Enchantments and surprising the opponent with a well played Monolith!

I think you can do well against another Spawnpoint build thanks to Redclaw increasing the efficiency of your creatures. With so many creatures you really need to be careful with their positioning though because of zone attacks. Your natural ennemy are conjurations like Idol of Pestilence, Obelisk etc. Hence I would include a second Hurl Boulder or Force Hammer to destroy those conjurations ASAP. Additionally I would include at least one Group Heal.
Maybe I would include 1-2 Enchants to protect Redclaw because he will be the main target if your opponent is smart. A Divine Protection or Regrowth can be really worth the SP and the upkeep in case you cast the Monolith later.
Since you use Rust already I strongly  advise to add a Shift Enchantment or  Enchantment Transfusion! The Reason is that if your opponent puts some Corrode Tokens on your Redclaw or your Mage you can cast Rust on your own Creature to remove the Rust Tokens. After that use Shift Enchantment or Transfusion to move Rust to your opponents mage or his strongest creature! That way your Mage/Redclaw can gain 2 Armor. If you combine it with replacing Bearkskin on your Mage you can actually remove 4 Corrode Tokens.
Even if the opponent uses no Corrode Tokens Shift Enchantment/Transfusion can be useful to move Marked for Death to a new target.

Hope that helped .

Hi Charmyna, your book is very similar in strategy to my Druid - Predetor book.  I play a vampiress as my enchantment bearer instead of a guardian angel, and I skip the meditation amulet and Fellella.  I love Fellelle and wish she worked better but I think you are overpaying for her benefits.  Instead of a meditation amulet you could just be using your druid's main actions to cast a second enchantment.

The Efficacy of Fellella:
Fellella requires 2 enchants as a preemptive defense but she can play them on herself and she channels so lets say she costs 12+1+1 = 14 mana.  She doesn't start benefiting you until 3 rounds after she is summoned (she's busy protecting herself the first two rounds.)  Her benefit is to allow your mage to use their main action for something else, which we will say is worth about 3 mana since you can be attacking, meditating, or guarding.  Plus he channeling she is benefiting you 4 mana a round which means if you play her round 1 she was a net benefit on round 7.  Really I'd say break even round 7 because she cost you 2 channeling by delaying your tree.  This is not even considering the cost of meditation amulet which is 4 + an action, so delays her break even point by 2 more rounds.

I don't know about you but that is too late of a pay-off for me.  There is some benefit from action compression, that you can cast 3 spells in one turn which sometimes the burst is worthwhile, but I still don't feel it's worth it.  I recommend you try the book with turn 1: tree+enchanter's ring, turn 2: Angel+enchant.  I think it will be a much faster and even more powerful opening.

Angel vs Vampiress:
If you were facing a hugely enchanted monster creature, what would you dispel first Divine Protection+Cobra Reflexes or Vampirism+Bear Strength?  With modular add on enchantments you can customize your creature to the situation so the base creature starts to not matter, however the vampiress can reach a higher maximum strength and I'd say the ability to choose not to fly can be quite valuable because if the enemy tries to target your creature you can guard her with your druid.  Lastly Angel is innately defensive which is situational, but vampiress is aggressive which is always useful.  Bear Str is almost always one of the first 2 enchants I put on.

Their mana efficiency is roughly the same (within 2 mana), depending on how you value the vampiress' optional flying.  Math for the math inclined:

Angel+Bear Str+Vampirism + 1/2xRhino Hide+3/4xBull's Endurance = Vampire + 5/6xCobra Reflexes + Divine Protection + Eagle Wings. 

13+5+6+2+3.75 = 29.75 mana for monster angel, and 16+5.83+4+6 = 31.83 mana for monster Vampiress.  You could argue the vampiress deserves a discount because you don't need to fly 6 times in most games, usually twice is enough so her innate fly is more efficient then casting eagle wings.

P.S. I know you love low SP costs, but Akiro's favor is amazing on an enchanted monster creature.  You get to leave it facedown most of the time and only flip it after seeing the dice roll went sour, and it only cost 3 mana total.

Very interesting and useful thoughts! Thanks alot!
About Fellella: I agree that against ultra fast builds that are able to attack flying she might not be the best opening. With Mohktari, Enfeeble, Agony and Maim Wings it still might work though.
I dont understand why you think she breaks even in Round 7. I guess you factor in the Mana cost for revealing enchantments? Well if she dies (didnt happen to me yet) those enchantments can be moved to another creature. Hence I would say she breaks even alot earlier. You could argue that a Seeking Dispel will prevent moving the enchantments from Fellella, but usually i try to avoid having only one face down enchantment on Fellella so its not too easy to guess which is Transfusion.
In most of the games I played so far my opponent used a costly Spawnpoint. In such a situation Fellella is really worth it, because she will for sure benefit beyond break even before she dies!
Btw without Fellella often I wont be able to have multiple hidden enchants on Fellella/Guardian Angel which would make this build much more vulnurable against Purge Magic/Destroy Magic.

I think the Vampiress is a really nice idea! Its just what I value so much on the Angel is the defensive nature, which makes sure he and the enchants on him stay on the baord as long as possible! Its really nice that the defence, flying and divine protection cant be dispelled! Sure you can put all those enchants on the vampiress, but they all cost you 2 Spellpoints and can be dispelled. A Bear Strength/Bulls/Rhino on the Angel can be dispelled as well but it costs you only 1 Spellpoint, so I can include many copies of them easily whereas I doubt you will include more than two Divine Protection, Cobra Reflexes or Eagle Wings. As I already pointed out I am really spellpoint conservative, which often helps me to find a better answer than my opponent.
So what are the points for Vampiress? Vampirism! Well it costs me 4 spellpoint to cast that on my Angel, so that favors the Vampiress. Then again in most situations I dont need Vampirism to keep the Angel alive. A Regrowth or staying inside Mohktaris zone and his inherent healing and defensiveness, maybe also a Hand of bim-Shalla is enough. Often Vampirism doesnt help at all like if you really need to attack conjurations or non living targets or if you miss your attack due to a defence or daze. Hence I dont value Vampirism that much. So what about the Vampiress pseudo-flying? Well in some very specific situations I like that she is a ground unit during my opponents turn. For example for hindering his units. Well here the Vine Markers usually help. Another such situation would be if the Vampiress is in the same zone as an hostile archer, especially a Gorgon Archer. Actually in this situation I think I would really wish to have the Vampiress instead of the Angel. Then again if I attack a Gorgon Archer who is standing on top of a Gate to Voltari I would fear Devouring Jellies which will quickly corrode the Vampiress Armor.
Its also important to note that Tanglevine on Vampiress is nice to prevent her from using her pseudo-flying and that way she wont be able to use the charge from Lion Savagery whereas you cant cast Tanglevine on the Angel without spending another Action to remove his Flying first.
Additionally, I want to emphasize how useful it is to have the inherent Flying trait on the Angel because that keeps him out of danger most of the time! Like I had plenty of situations in which the opponent had much more dices than me because he focused on ground units. Just he couldnt use most of them because I outplayed him with Vine Markers, Tanglevine etc. If the Vampiress wants to deliver her damage she has to stay at the front but since she is a ground unit she can die easily if the opponent has more dice than me. Sure, you can cast Eagle Wings on her, but having an inherent Flying trait increases the chances of surviving cosiderably compared to Eagle Wings!
I guess in the end its a matter of play style. Vampiress might be better if you prefer playing aggressively. I prefer focusing on control and conservation though. Its more important to me that the Angel survives every burst damage than having two more dice each round via the vampiress basic attack.

About Akiros Favor: You are totally right. Its a really good enchant on a creature with many dices. Mhh i guess I should use it even if it costs 3 SP.

Quote from: Charmyna on October 09, 2014, 05:43:55 AM

Quote from: Borg on October 09, 2014, 03:27:27 AM

Lately, I've been adding [mwcard=MWSTX2FFJ01]Harshforge Monolith[/mwcard] to quite a few of my Books especially my near enchantmentless Beastmaster deck, specifically to counter the overuse of enchantments of many books.
It looks like Harshforge Monolith could hurt this deck real bad all at once or am I seeing this wrong ?

Harshforge is for sure nice against my build! So far noone used it against me. Since it effect has only range 1, my Mage and Fellella should be able to stay out of range. If the Harshforge is played during the last QC phase, I might not be able to avoid its effect though, so it might cost me 10+ mana during the next upkeep round. This is more than the Monolith cost itself (6 mana) and considering I have only 10 Channeling, if I spent all my mana in the previous round I might not be able to pay the upkeep for all enchants. So yeah it will be a really good spell to use against this deck. If more players will start using it, I might include Mana Prism in this deck. It will not completely counter Harshforge Monolith but will make it hurt less. The downside will be that I would need to cast Mana Prism before Monolith has been cast which doesnt seem to be a really good move since the opponent might not cast the Monolith at all after that. Then again Mana Prism helps against other stuff as well. In the end, I need to see how it works in a real game .

Range is (luckily) only one for the Monolith (otherwise it would be way too powerful imo) but played in a centre zone it still covers 5 zones and of course the Monolith player will for sure carry some Force Pushes/Teleports to push the main enchantment carrier back into the Monolith's zone of effect during final quickcast of the following turn. Getting out of this stranglehold can be quite painful in the end, either let go of a number of enchantments ( meaning lost mana and actions in the process ) or continuing the fight with a minimum of mana ( not a great option either ).

Yeah it will be annoying. How annoying will depend on the positioning of the Monolith. Since the opponent wants maximum effect right after it has been cast, he might not cast it in one of the central zones and he might not even cast it in the zone of the angel but an adjacent one. Since the angel has fast and Flying he should be able to move far away from the Monolith and still attack in the next round. So the opponent would need a teleport to bring the angel back into the monolith reach. A teleport costs many spellpoints and mana though so im not too afraid of that. Then again, it might be better to just kill the Monolith ASAP instead of fleeing with the Angel. So it might be good to attack with the angel then use transfusion to move Bear Streangth and Lion Savagery on another Creature and attack again. It will all depend on the board situation.

Gefällt mir Gibt's bald nen Video dazu?

I really like the idea. At first glance, I'm wondering how frequently you (can) use the Vine Tree. As far as I can see, spawning vine creatures is not central to your game plan, right? So does he primarily give you +1 channeling and the ability to bond and additional flexibility when needed (as you described with Kralathor)?

I have little experience with familiars (on the druid), but for me it seems natural to use the Vine Tree more as a "controling spawnpoint". Therefore, I am surprised that you "only" have one plant conjuration. What about multiple Tanglevines, a Stranglevine, Orchid or a Wall (LoS can be crucial)? Why did you decide not to put some more in?
Maybe you could share some more light on the Vine Tree in this book (or is it simply the fact, that it is the best tree ). 

Some loose question popping into my mind:

• How do you handle guards without slam or pushes? Is one mongoose enough?
• Did you play versus aggressive openings a la Adramalech or a Brute swarm (strong in our meta here) do you adjust or are you safe the way you described?
• Do you have any experience vs Necromancers? (Idol of pestilence/Deathlock)?

I'm sure I have more questions when I thought more about the book. Nice to see you posting. Thanks a lot for sharing.

Regards,
gerni

Thanks for posting your questions .
Your thoughts about the Vine Tree are quite similar to mine. First, I tried this deck with the Etherian Lifetree since I could cast it in round one and it increases the survivability of Fellella and the Angel. The downside was that I often tried to kill creatures with the Angel. The Lifetree didnt help here. Often the increased HP on Fellella isnt needed as well. Additionally, the Vine Tree costs only 2 extra mana and increases your channeling! So even if I have to cast him in 2nd round and even though I dont use his action much often (I use him like 3-4 times per  game usually) I still prefer him over Lifetree because in the situations I use his action and mana, its quite valuable.
Btw you are right about including some more controlling vine spells like tanglevine. Often one tanglevine is enough for me, hence I included just one. But, there are situations in which I wish I had more . This book is not fixed. I played quite some games with this deck yet, but it will still evolve with every match I play and I strongly suggest anyone who uses it to adapt it to the local meta!
Corrosive Orchid can be nice, but I prefer Dissolve because its cheaper Mana and Spellpoint wise. Often I dont feel like the Orchid itself is worth the 7 Mana because it dies too quickly or is avoided too easily.
About Walls: Some Walls can be nice for sure, but in general im not too much a fan of them. Usually I try to solve problems without them, because if the opponent finds a way to play around them they are just a mana/action sink. Btw the Vine Tree cant cast any wall that blocks LoS!

About your other questions:
1. Usually one Mongoose, Tanglevine and Teleport is enough against guards. Often, the opponent doesnt have enough dispels left when it comes to Mongoose. And if i feel like i really dont want to loose mongoose I can still use Enchantment Transfusion to save it. Then again, another mongoose wouldnt hurt since its so cheap.
2. I havent played against Adramelech or Brute swarm with this Deck. Adramelech is for sure threatening for the Vine Tree so it will be a challenging game. With a falcon Precision Adramelech will be also very dangerous for Fellella! Against Adramelech it might be useful to include at least 3 Agony because they hurt his sweeping attack exceptionally well. So with Fellella you could reapply Agony a couple of times to gain an action advantage (and mana if using wardstone). You could protect the Tree with the Guardian Angel so Adramelech will hit him for only 1 Dice and the Tree for 4 dice (or your druid for 2 dice if you guard with him as well). So I would hope that by reducing Adramelechs damage output and slowly dealing damage to him via counterattacks (maybe supported by a Rust on Adra) its possible to kill him before the tree dies or at least to kill him shortly after the tree died.
Im not too afraid of Brute swarm btw. If they attack the tree they dont benefit from bloodthirsty +2. Attacking the druid is usually not a good idea as well because they are lumbering and hindered by the vine markers (so Zombie Frenzy doesnt help). If the Necro wants to make sure his Brutes keep hitting the Druid he will need quite a couple Teleport and even more actions because Fellalla can Nullify the Druid. With this build im not too afraid of Deathlock and Idol because the Angel and maybe a Vine Snapper or Raptor Vine spawned on top of a conjuration deals with them quickly if unprotected. Sure, he can use the Zombie Brutes to guard, but then his Brutes wont damage the Druid/Tree and I might just choose another target or use Mongoose/Tanglevine. If the Necro uses the promo Gravikor or Maim Wings and hence his Brutes are able to attack the Guardian Angel after it already got damaged by Idol of Pestilence this can be quite difficult to handle. In such a situation it might be really useful to have a Force Hammer or Hurl Boulder against Gravikor (and I would dispel Maim Wings ASAP)!
So yeah both situations which you described can be quite challenging for this deck and it will depend on who finds the better answer in a given board situation as it always does in a good game. This deck has enough flexibility to often find a good answer though .

Edit to question 2: After thinking a while how I would play against Adramelech I came to the conclusion that Mohktari might be the better choice as a tree against aggressive builds. Against those builds my Druid, Fellella and the Guardian Angel will often stay in the Trees zone or in its vicinity. So Mohktari essetially saves 2-3 actions and 11-16 Mana for 2-3 regrowth! You will never save so many Mana and actions with the Vine Tree in such games! Actually, even in games against slow opponents Mohktari will save the Regrowth on the Druid and Fellella, which is worth 2 actions and 11 Mana! Thinking about Vine Tree, in most games it saved me 2-3 actions and 6-10 Mana during the most important first 5-8 rounds of the game. Since Mohktari gains a similar advantage without a delay I consider removing the Vine Tree completely and playing Mohktari every game. I need to test that first though. Its also very important to note that Mohktari is the only tree so far with 2 base armor. So as a treebonded Tree he will have 12 Life and 3 Armor! That one extra armor is quite worth something, especially against Adramelech! A downside of Mohktari is that he is legendary though. So you cant be sure to play him early in the game. Hence, it might be best to include Mohktari and the Vine Tree in this deck just in case. They are both very solid conjurations anyway.
So back to Adramelech. I would choose the following opening:

Round 1 (19 Mana on Mage):
Mage:
Fellella (12 Mana)
Meditation Amulet (4 Mana)

Round 2 (12 Mana on Mage, 1 Mana on Fellella):
Mage prepares Mohktari and Agony. If the Opponent casts Adramelech (I guess he moved twice in round 1), move a zone with the Druid and cast hidden Agony on Adra (2 Mana). Use the Quickcast for Mohktari (8 Mana).
Fellella: Cast Rhino Hide on Fellella (1 Mana from Druid, 1 Mana from Fellella)

Round 3 (11 Mana on Mage, 1 Mana on Fellella):
Prepare Bulls Endurance and Leather Boots with Druid, Divine Protection with Fellella.
In this Opening there is not enough Mana on Druid to cast Angel this turn and the Mana is needed to reveal the enchants on Fellella in case she is attacked by Adramelech this round (the opponent could use Teleport+Falcon Precision).
Druid uses Quickcast for Bulls Endurance on Fellella (2 Mana).
If the Opponent has Ini, he might attack Fellella with Adramelech first. In that case the Druid is able to reveal Agony (3 Mana), Rhino Hide (2 Mana) and even Bulls Endurance if Adramelech rolls really lucky (3 Mana)! In this Situation the Druid can use Meditation Amulet in this round while Fellella casts Divine Protection on her. Next Round the Druid will dispel Falcon Precision and cast Enchantment Transfusion on Fellella while Fellella casts Healing Charm on her. So in this Situation Fellella will have 10 Life, 2 Armor, Awesome Defense, Aegis and Regeneration on her! Adramelech wont kill her even if the Opponent uses both his actions to recast Falcon Precision and to dispel Agony.
If Adramelech attacks the Druid in Round 3, move to Mohktaris Zone and cast Leather Boots. Next Upkeep Phase the Druid will heal 4 damage (2 from Regen, 2 from Lifebond), so being hit by Adramelech wont mean alot to him.
Depending on what Adramelech attacks the druid should be able to cast the Angel in Round 4 or 5 after which he can start attacking Adra.

Instead of casting Agony on Adra the Druid can also cast Enfeeble on Adra. Next round cast Transfusion on Adra as well and reveal Enfeeble. If the opponent tries to dispel Enfeeble move it to his mage. That way he has to pay 6 mana while you pay 4 mana for Transfusion and Enfeeble on his Mage is really annoying for him! If you want cast Transfusion on his Mage again but he might stay out of range of Adra when he dispels it next time so you would need to move Enfeeble to one of your creatures and then with another Transfusion to Adra, so that is not too efficient. In the end it will depend on the actual position on the board whether or not its worth to cast a Transfusion on his Mage to protect Enfeeble.

With this Opening the Angel arrives late but due to Mohktari and Agony/Enfeeble you significantly reduce Adramelechs damage potential. Once the Angel is out, Adramelech will be hindered. This allows Fellella to stay at save range unless Adra has Mongoose Agility+Cheetah Speed which I guess would cost the Opponent too much actions/mana at the beginning to keep up. Against Adra it really helps that Mohktari has 3 Armor and that your Mage gains Regrowth so he will be able to use Lifebond without accumulating damage! Its important though to be aware of fire Zone attacks. Hence Fellella should only be in the same Zone as Mohktari and the Druid if the Regeneration is really needed. I dont say this is a save counter versus Adramelech, but at least from theorycrafting I think it will work better compared to the Vine Tree opening and I think this opening isnt too shabby against Adra.

If you expect your opponent to play aggressive you could also cast Meditation Amulet in Round 1 and instead of casting Fellella, use it to meditate! That way you see what your Opponent does and you will be able to adapt. If he moves twice, he might cast Adramelech or a similar threat. So you might not want to cast Fellella, because she might need too many of your and her Actions to let her survive in this situation. Instead you can cast Guardian Angel and Mohktari in Round 2.  Buffed by Bear Strength and Mohktari and thanks to his inherent healing via guarding the Angel should be able to compete well against Adramelech!
If your expectation was wrong, you can still cast Fellella and Mohktari in Round 2. That way you will have lost one Mana and one of Fellellas actions compared to the Opening in which Fellella is cast in Round 1. But this loss might be worth the Flexibility you gained.

Edit3:
If you play with Promos or if it gets released one day you can also use Gravikor against Adramelech. The reason I think that would be good is the vine markers: You can teleport Adra away with a teleport wand and he will be hindered for 2-3 rounds. Additionally you can cast Nullify on your Mage with Fellala to make your Opponent pay even more actions for dissovling the mage wand. If you got enough time you could cast Nullify and Transfusion on Fellella to make sure your Mage Wand survives even longer, but that might not work in Reality because you need your actions for other stuff. If you know that in your local meta you will face Adramelech or other fire creatures quite often you might also consider including a Firebrand Imp into this deck for only two spellpoints. He has Flame Immunity, which makes him a formidable guard against Adramelech. That will not protect Fellella unless you remove Adramelechs Flying trait, but it will protect your Druid and Tree.

Another good answer to big creatures is Enfeeble. Sure it can be dispelled which costs the opponent only 2 Spellpoints, but against that you can use Transfusion to somehow counter the Dispel! Enfeeble on a Mage is often as annoying as it is on Adramelech and since this book got plenty Transfusion this is quite a natural move.

Edit 4:
Im still a noob . I just realized Maim Wings is a lvl 1 enchantment. Somehow I thought it is lvl 2 similar to Eagle Wings. Hence, I guess its a good idea to have one Maim Wings in this book which you can use against any big flyer like Adramelech who might be able to kill Fellella efficiently. Maim Wings also helps against Adra because he will be hindered by the Vine Markers. Sure the opponent might dispel Maim Wings, but you can use Enchantment Transfusion to move Maim Wings to Fellella because then the Druid/Angel will be able to protect her with guard. If you want you can transfuse Maim Wings back to Adra or just Enfeeble/Agony Adra.