Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Strategy and Tactics => Topic started by: Ravepig on April 12, 2016, 10:07:10 PM
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Here is the scenario of what happened in my Arena Match tonight: I had my Warlock buffed fairly well with Enchantments. I had three nullifies, one Reverse Magic and one Arcane Ward in my book. What my opponent did was use his QC to cast dissolve, which he knew he was wasting- dissolve's target says Mage, so it automatically triggers Nullify, which then freed him up to use his action to cast Purge Magic which removed all my enchantments. I can't place both Nullify AND Reverse Magic at the same time, because one spell would trigger both making one pointless.
How can I counter this tactic for future reference???
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While there are ways, they would require different spells and/or tactics and a decent ability to recognize when your opponent is about to double cast to purge.
One enchanters wardstone makes a 3 enchant purge cost 6 more mana, holy mages can intervention away, and enchantment transfusion can shift them elsewhere so you can still get the benefit or return them to your mage with a second one.
That's about it. I suggest the wardstone approach. Making your curses and buffs harder to remove can work quite well.
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Did not even think of Enchanter's Wardstone. That's a good idea. Likely would still purge magic, but definitely at a much higher cost.
I'm still trying to figure out the strategy/benefit of Arcane Ward other than attaching to an item to protect against crumble. That's what's interesting: Dissolve targets mage, but crumble targets equipment. Most of my opponents stick with dissolve, so what's the value of Arcane Ward?
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Arcane Ward will protect a specific enchantment as Dispel targets the enchantment and therefore won't trigger a nullify or reverse magic.
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Enchantment Transfusion.
Put 2 in every spellbook you have, when your opponent cast Purge Magic. Reveal ET and then move them back to target with the other one.
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Enchantment Transfusion is a good idea!
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You could also use Enchantment Transfusion on another creature with its own Nullify or Reverse Magic and bring that to your Mage after losing your first Nullify/Reverse Magic.
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Arcane Ward is nice for protecting your medium creatures that You don't plan on buffing soon. With Enchanter's Ring it's 1 mana cost for protecting your creature against enchantments and incantations.
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Just to be clear- Purge Magic removes all hidden and revealed enchantments. Enchantment Transfusion allows me to move all my enchantments to another legal creature. So, is this a matter of timing? Meaning, I need to cast Transfusion PRIOR to when I think my opponent is going to cast Purge Magic, OR can I reveal Transfusion during the counter spell step? I'm assuming it's a guessing game as the way I read the rules/card text, purge magic would also remove Transfusion. Is this correct?
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Just to be clear- Purge Magic removes all hidden and revealed enchantments. Enchantment Transfusion allows me to move all my enchantments to another legal creature. So, is this a matter of timing? Meaning, I need to cast Transfusion PRIOR to when I think my opponent is going to cast Purge Magic, OR can I reveal Transfusion during the counter spell step? I'm assuming it's a guessing game as the way I read the rules/card text, purge magic would also remove Transfusion. Is this correct?
As long as Purge Magic hasn't got to the Resolve Spell step (step 4), you could reveal your Enchantment Transfusion. In other words, you could reveal it at the end of the Declare Spell step, Pay Costs step, or Counter Spell step - your choice.
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got it- thank you all for the help!
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Some random thoughts to help get around Purges...
1-2 Enchanters Wardstones makes Purge Magic really expensive. Unplayable expensive in some cases.
Playing a Jinx at the right time can also botch his attempt to purge you, if his first spell that he is trying to waste gets Jinxed, it never gets to burn your Nullify and you've kinda ruined his round. In fact, just toss out Jinxes all the time him because its annoying.
Another option is to not to directly rely on stacks of enchantments and draw buffs from other sources like incantations and equipment mixes with only a couple enchantments. Things like Hand of Bim Shalla can buff you without being directly purge-able for example. Or, have a couple creatures to share your buffs over. When doing a beatdown sort of Warlock I like to do a tag team of some upper-middle tier creatures like Necropian Vampiress and a Dark Pact Slayer or Blood Demon to make a reaper to share buffs over so that no one Purge Magic can wreck everything.
You can also toss out debuffs/curses on the opponent as you buff yourself... try to get him to spend his Purge Magic to knock off a stack of curses instead of your buffs.
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Some random thoughts to help get around Purges...
1-2 Enchanters Wardstones makes Purge Magic really expensive. Unplayable expensive in some cases.
Playing a Jinx at the right time can also botch his attempt to purge you, if his first spell that he is trying to waste gets Jinxed, it never gets to burn your Nullify and you've kinda ruined his round. In fact, just toss out Jinxes all the time him because its annoying.
Another option is to not to directly rely on stacks of enchantments and draw buffs from other sources like incantations and equipment mixes with only a couple enchantments. Things like Hand of Bim Shalla can buff you without being directly purge-able for example. Or, have a couple creatures to share your buffs over. When doing a beatdown sort of Warlock I like to do a tag team of some upper-middle tier creatures like Necropian Vampiress and a Dark Pact Slayer or Blood Demon to make a reaper to share buffs over so that no one Purge Magic can wreck everything.
You can also toss out debuffs/curses on the opponent as you buff yourself... try to get him to spend his Purge Magic to knock off a stack of curses instead of your buffs.
These are good tips and exactly how I reworked my book. I plan to add a few solid creatures, buff the small group up and then head out to battle.
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Jinx and nullify are both mandatory triggers during the counter step. Wouldn't they both be revealed on the first cast and leave nothing for the second just like a nullify reverse magic combo?
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Jinx and nullify are both mandatory triggers during the counter step. Wouldn't they both be revealed on the first cast and leave nothing for the second just like a nullify reverse magic combo?
Not if you play Jinx on your opponent's mage
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Jinx and nullify are both mandatory triggers during the counter step. Wouldn't they both be revealed on the first cast and leave nothing for the second just like a nullify reverse magic combo?
Not if you play Jinx on your opponent's mage
Incorrect.
http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=14626.msg42060#msg42060
Choose targets is the first step of casting a spell and both jinx and nullify are simultaneously triggered. Both are revealed and the controller of them chooses which one to pay to resolve.
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I think his point was Jinx on the opponent, Nullify on yourself.
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I think his point was Jinx on the opponent, Nullify on yourself.
You know, it seems counter-intuitive, but both the Jinx on the caster and the Nullify on the target should be revealed when an Enchantment or Incantation is used by the caster on the target. My reasoning:
1) Both are revealed in the same (Counter Spell) step.
2) The trigger for mandatory reveal of Jinx is casting the spell, which happens as soon as the first step begins (so Nullify has not yet taken effect).
3) The trigger for mandatory reveal of Nullify is the creature being targeted by the spell, which happens prior to the Counter Spell step (so Jinx has not yet had a chance to go into effect).
You can choose to pay the mana cost for one or both, but neither will be around any longer once the one spell is cast since both are destroyed once resolved.
This, in essence, is just a restatement of what is in the other thread (mentioned by BoomFrog, above), but in a more general sense (as the target with Nullify can be any creature for this to happen).
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That was what I thought, but didn't really want to go overboard on ruling technicalities. Good to know I'm not the only one who sees it as a simultaneous reveal.
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That seems counter intuitive to me because Jinx should stop the spell in its place so it should never get to actually target anything.
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Agreed... but that's how it seems to work. Life goes on, I guess.
It doesn't happen all that much... you or an ally would be casting both spells... so just don't do it.
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I think his point was Jinx on the opponent, Nullify on yourself.
You know, it seems counter-intuitive, but both the Jinx on the caster and the Nullify on the target should be revealed when an Enchantment or Incantation is used by the caster on the target. My reasoning:
1) Both are revealed in the same (Counter Spell) step.
2) The trigger for mandatory reveal of Jinx is casting the spell, which happens as soon as the first step begins (so Nullify has not yet taken effect).
3) The trigger for mandatory reveal of Nullify is the creature being targeted by the spell, which happens prior to the Counter Spell step (so Jinx has not yet had a chance to go into effect).
You can choose to pay the mana cost for one or both, but neither will be around any longer once the one spell is cast since both are destroyed once resolved.
This, in essence, is just a restatement of what is in the other thread (mentioned by BoomFrog, above), but in a more general sense (as the target with Nullify can be any creature for this to happen).
I guess from my perspective, if I enchant the opposing mage with a hidden jinx and he casts, the jinx prevents the spell from actually being cast, thus the spell never hits the intended target, which is required to trigger nullify. Isn't this the purpose of Jinx?
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Well what is interesting is the wording of Nullify, which is if this creature is Targeted, which is what happens in Step 1 of casting a spell, and of course Jinx doesn't trigger until Step 2 of that process.
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Well what is interesting is the wording of Nullify, which is if this creature is Targeted, which is what happens in Step 1 of casting a spell, and of course Jinx doesn't trigger until Step 2 of that process.
Ok, that's a solid point. So, Jinx on the casting mage and nullify on my mage would indeed both trigger when the opposing mage casts. I can live with that if that's the way the card reads, but I still can't wrap my mind around the logic- doesn't make sense if the jinx would stop the spell from being released and hitting the intended target (which, logically, is what should be required to trigger nullify).
So, really the only purpose of casting jinx over nullify is the cheaper reveal cost. I'm not sure I understand why use Jinx at all then (still very new to this game, so if I'm missing something obvious, I'm eager to learn).
Looking at the reveal cost vs. the benefit, Jinx seems pointless when compared to Nullify- which also takes us back to the original problem- there is no real way to stop purge magic other than casting a perfectly timed enchantment transfusion?
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No - the answer is don't over commit resources.
3 Enchantments is generally asking for a purge - most of my books of all mages carry it.
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No - the answer is don't over commit resources.
3 Enchantments is generally asking for a purge - most of my books of all mages carry it.
Right! that's what I'm saying too. If someone is relying on enchantments stacked like 5-6+ high, then I think they rightfully should be punished for it :P
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If someone has 5+ enchantment on a friendly creature it becomes a very tempting target..
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If someone has 5+ enchantment on a friendly creature it becomes a very tempting target..
And it also becomes a very strong target. A creature with 5+ enchants is often a threat that you must either deal with or die. And they can make it very hard for you to deal with it.