Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Spellbook Design and Construction => Topic started by: sdougla2 on May 08, 2014, 02:13:57 PM
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I've been wanting to use a variety of different things for a while, but they just didn't gel together the way that I wanted. I really like Bridge Trolls, but Beastmasters are better off sticking to animals, or, failing that, going with Kralathor. Druids shouldn't run Bridge Trolls as they're too expensive to include for a creature that doesn't help with the Druid's vulnerability to fire. I may use a Bridge Troll in a Warlord build once FiF comes out, but I don't want to play a Warlord in the current card pool.
I've wanted to put together a Priestess again for a while, but something always felt just a little off with the builds I came up with. Crown of Protection can make angels incredibly tough, but Knight of Westlock and Brogan already have enough armor. In addition, while both Knight of Westlock and Brogan are good, tough creatures, they have low enough health that direct healing spells are less efficient than I would like.
So when thinking about putting together a build that uses Crown of Protection, Bridge Trolls are a great choice. This will be especially nice once FiF comes out, as you can support your Bridge Trolls without using enchantments.
Veteran's Belt is an awesome tool for making your mage incredibly tough, but Corrode and Dissolve reduce it's viability. For most mages, Veteran's Belt will get Dissolved or they'll get all of their armor removed. The Priestess has a slightly easier time of it with Armor Ward being better for her than for other mages and Restore curtailing the threat of Corrode. In the current card pool, I think the Priestess makes the best use of Veteran's Belt.
In addition, I've been thinking about how to make use of Divine Intervention. Using it to drop a creature in your opponent's face on turn 2 seems like an inefficient use. I prefer to use it for the thing that it uniquely offers in the current card pool: a way to counter a creature spell. So many aggressive builds move to NC on turn 1 and play a big creature on turn 2. If I use Divine Intervention to move my opponent back into their starting square and counter a Lord of Fire on turn 2, I've basically just won. Even if my opponent tries to play a Dark Pact Slayer or a Steelclaw Grizzly, countering it and moving my opponent back to their starting zone will put me significantly ahead.
With these ideas in mind, I came up with this build. I played a variation on it once without Bridge Trolls (though it was against a Warlock, so I probably wouldn't have played them anyway). It worked extremely well, but I need to think more about other matchups.
[spellbook]
[spellbookheader]
[spellbookname]Armored Trolls[/spellbookname]
[mage]Priestess[/mage]
[/spellbookheader]
[spells]
[spellclass]Attack[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1a04]1 x Fireball[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKA01]1 x Surging Wave[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNA01]1 x Acid Ball[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1a06]2 x Flameblast[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Conjuration[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1j04]1 x Battle Forge[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j12]1 x Mana Crystal[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1j22]1 x Tanglevine[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Creature[/spellclass]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKC01]2 x Bridge Troll[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1c06]1 x Brogan Bloodstone[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1c22]1 x Knight of Westlock[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1c31]1 x Samandriel, Angel of Light[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Enchantment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1e32]2 x Regrowth[/mwcard]
[mwcard=MWSTX1CKE01]1 x Armor Ward[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e09]1 x Agony[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e28]1 x Mongoose Agility[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e05]1 x Cheetah Speed[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWE03]1 x Falcon Precision[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e11]1 x Divine Intervention[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e12]2 x Divine Protection[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1e01]2 x Bear Strength[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Equipment[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1q06]1 x Dragonscale Hauberk[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q16]2 x Leather Gloves[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q03]1 x Crown of Protection[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q22]1 x Moonglow Amulet[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q09]1 x Enchanter's Ring[/mwcard]
[mwcard=DNQ07]2 x Veteran's Belt[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q29]2 x Staff of Asyra[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q15]2 x Leather Boots[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1q07]1 x Elemental Cloak[/mwcard]
[mwcard=FWQ10]1 x Storm Drake Hide[/mwcard]
[spellclass]Incantation[/spellclass]
[mwcard=mw1i16]1 x Lay Hands[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i17]3 x Minor Heal[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i07]3 x Dissolve[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i06]3 x Dispel[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i28]2 x Teleport[/mwcard]
[mwcard=mw1i24]1 x Seeking Dispel[/mwcard]
[/spells]
[cost]Total cost: 120 pts[/cost]
[/spellbook]
Thoughts?
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I see where you're headed with this. Given the high regenerate of trolls and a Priestesses own healing affinity you could probably keep them alive for a good long time. I'd be interested in seeing how it plays for you.
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Hmm. This looks like it might make the priestess borderline of not outright op against most aggro builds. You could ruin nearly every possible aggro opening with this. Merely sending the enemy back to starting zone is already bad enough, but you can prevent all sorts of aggro openings, whether it's Adramelech, angels, lair, battleforge, Cervere, wizards tower, walls...the list goes on a on. The only aggro builds that aren't so hurt by this would be those that make their opening in their starting corner on round 1. Like the teleport Thoughtspore and galvitar opening. Most forcemasters would be completely neutered by this, as well as most priests. Beastmasters would be fine (except most of the lair using ones).
This worries me a bit.
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There are ways to deal with it, but Divine Intervention can wreck a lot of aggressive openings if the opponent doesn't see it coming. Seeking Dispel comes to mind, as does Nullify. The thing that's nice from the Priestess' perspective is that Divine Intervention can completely crush aggressive openings that don't see it coming, and even in cases where the opponent does see it coming, it doesn't cost the Priestess much and slows down the aggressive player slightly. Instead of that Nullify or Seeking Dispel, they could have played a Bear Strength or a Cheetah Speed.
Spawnpoint builds should be fine as long as Divine Intervention isn't used to counter the spawnpoint.
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There was a long discussion (http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=13743.msg31371#msg31371) three months ago regarding Divine Intervention. I have since played around with the tactic a few times and can attest to the fact that it is not overpowered. If your opponent does not know about it or isn't expecting it, then it can be a game changer. However, it is a tactic that sticks in peoples minds also. After you've seen it, you should expect every Holy Mage to have it in their bag of tricks and play accordingly. I very rarely get to counter anything truly substantial with it anymore, but it is still nice even if you just counter a moderately expensive spell.
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I knew that Divine Intervention could be used to counter spells in theory from quite a while ago (before that discussion), but I haven't really been playing any holy mages recently, and my opponents haven't done it in practice. This was my first attempt to really use that option in a spellbook.
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When you use Divine Intervention to cancel your opponent's creature, don't move your opponent back to his or her starting zone; move them to the zone with your creatures.
I was going to say that this thread reminded me a lot of a book I designed about 8 months ago, but when I went to look at the thread (http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=13010.0), you were the only one to comment on it! Hah!
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If I opt to summon a creature on turn 1, then I'm not in position to use Divine Intervention to counter their Lord of Fire on turn 2. I plan to generally boost my channeling and/or play Battleforge on turn 1. That way I can potentially counter aggressive openings, and I have a stronger long game. I'm really playing for a strong mid game. If I ended up using Divine Intervention to counter something slightly later, I would Teleport them to my creatures.
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So, I would be interested in hearing how the games go with this deck. Have you run it yet?
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If I opt to summon a creature on turn 1, then I'm not in position to use Divine Intervention to counter their Lord of Fire on turn 2.
Your midgame plan is good. But if your opponent has 1st round initiative you can totally totall summon a Bridge Troll on round 1, move into position on the first creature activation of round 2, and cast Divine Intervention on an opponent who sprinted to your far center.
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If I opt to summon a creature on turn 1, then I'm not in position to use Divine Intervention to counter their Lord of Fire on turn 2.
Your midgame plan is good. But if your opponent has 1st round initiative you can totally totall summon a Bridge Troll on round 1, move into position on the first creature activation of round 2, and cast Divine Intervention on an opponent who sprinted to your far center.
Fair enough.
@ kiwipaul
I played one game with a variation on this build so far. I opened with a pair of Mana Crystals and then played Divine Intervention and Battle Forge on turn 2. I countered a turn 2 Dark Pact Slayer and moved the Warlock back into his starting corner with Divine Intervention, armored up, and played Brogan with Bear Strength. My opponent summoned Goran and got in a damage race with me where I was massively advantaged (5 Armor, Flame -4, and Veteran's Belt to his 2 Armor from Demonhide Armor). Plus I had a face down Armor Ward on, so it would have been pretty costly for him to try to remove my armor.
I summoned a Knight of Westlock eventually, but it hardly mattered. At one point he attacked Brogan, but I almost fully healed him with a Minor Heal. It's a bit hard to judge how well this build would have done if my opponent had responded better to the disruption of Divine Intervention, but he made pretty poor decisions after that point. He didn't use Vampirism, Death Link, or Regrowth/Regrowth Belt to help with the damage race. Curse spam and Enchanter's Wardstone would have been a much better option than getting in a damage race with me at that point. Agony on Brogan and/or Dispel on the Bear Strength would have helped. Lash of Hellfire was a poor investment, which he could have seen coming when I played Battleforge on turn 2.
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Man that's mean. ;D
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Yesterday, I tried this build against a Druid. It was quite tough since both mages were so hard to hurt, but eventually he conceded because he couldn't cope with my creatures for much longer.
I really like the idea of the build; I was only able to put one Armour token on each Troll (plus Divine Protection on one of them), but against non-Piercing plants it was enough. Supported by the Priestess and with Regenerate 3, these Trolls are so hard to kill if you cannot kill them in one round. Also, they hit sooo hard with Bear Strength.
In order to make this build work for me personally, I will add some more utility spells (another Force Push, Knockdown...).
P.S.: I totally wasted that Divine Intervention...
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Interesting,
i use "armored trolls" idea with a warlord. Command ring + Enchant ring, fortified position, quicksand and tangelvine and of course, enchantements.
Priestess will be much more efficient than warlord in some ways. Thank you for brining a Troll + Crown of protection combination :)
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Enchanter's Ring doesn't help with Fortified Position. Fortified Position targets a zone, not a friendly creature. Still, I can see that helping somewhat. I prefer Crown of Protection because it doesn't limit my mobility options going forward.
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I know that about fortified position, command ring + enchanter ring on Banner carrier was what i had on my mind :)
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I played a game with this build today against an Earth Wizard that showcased how ridiculously good at attrition this build can be. I killed 3 Iron Golems, a Gorgon Archer, an Earth Elemental, and Malacoda. The only creature I lost was Brogan, which was the only creature I didn't invest in supporting. I still had 2 Bridge Trolls and Samandriel at the end, each with 2 Armor. One of my Bridge Trolls probably took something like 30 damage over the course of the game, but just Would. Not. Die.
My opponent still had another Earth Elemental and another Gorgon Archer at the end of the game, but once I started focusing his mage down, he died in about 2 rounds. If he had played Devouring Jellies instead of Earth Elementals, I might have been forced to try something else, but the bonuses against Nonliving on Staff of Asyra and Samandriel allowed me to repeatedly Stun the Iron Golems, and he was going to guard with them constantly anyway.
Bridge Trolls with Armor backed up by healing support are just amazing. And trying to batter down someone with 5 Armor and Veteran's Belt is incredibly inefficient even if you have a bunch of 6-7 dice attacks to throw at the problem.
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I want try this spellbook when I get the FvW expansion in August. It seems really nasty. :) Would you say it could hold its own in a battle of attrition against a zombie swarm necromancer? We are trying to find a way to beat one of those without doing an all-in at the start.
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I haven't played this build against a Necromancer yet. It gets bonuses on Staff of Asyra and Samandriel against Nonliving, and the chances to Daze/Stun help. The other thing that helps is that you can remove Taint and Rot much more easily than other mages. This build is incredible at attrition battles, but zombies are just so freaking efficient it's hard to say without trying it.
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While then we have to try it! :)