Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Strategy and Tactics => Topic started by: Borg on May 03, 2015, 11:55:55 AM
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A couple of days ago I thought of an alternative tactic I can use with my Forcemaster book and it struck me as potentially very powerful so, I'd like to hear any external thoughts on it. Maybe I'm missing something.
The Ingredients are Wall of Bones, Thoughtspore and Sleep.
If the match-up seems perfect for it ( like eg a Beastmaster or Priest(ess) ), the idea is to play a Thoughtspore R1 or R2 and put Sleep on it.
Then Force Pull or Force Push the enemy mage in a corner zone and slap down two Wall of Bones around it cutting his LOS to the rest of the arena.
Put anything that can harm the Thoughtspore to sleep immediately.
Without LOS to any creatures which are asleep outside the walls he can't awake them with a ranged spell.
Then, if the enemy mage :
1- summons another creature in his corner : put it to sleep
2- attacks a sleeping friendly creature to awaken it : put it to sleep immediately afterwards
3- Attacks my Forcemaster : good luck trying to outhit a Forcemaster
I haven't played this tactic yet but I can see this being especially powerful against buddy builds or builds who plan on using just a couple of Creatures. Enchanted Guardian Angels or Cerveres suddenly going to sleep without a chance to awaken them seems pretty gamechanging and decisive to me.
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Be aware of non-living creatures which are psychic immune :)
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Be aware of non-living creatures which are psychic immune :)
I modified my OP somewhat - highlighted and underlined some text :)
What I also maybe didn't point out enough in my OP is that it's not really the Thoughtspore+Sleep combination which I find so powerful but being cut off at the same time by two durable walls ( 12 life ) in a corner zone which possible makes for a deadly combination. There's no escape from it unless you destroy a Wall or the Forcemaster first and it also makes it very difficult to deal with the Thoughtspore who will have at least a Block or Brace Yourself on him at range 2.
Being face to face with a Forcemaster in one closed off zone with no possibility to move is not very promising for the other mage.
Having a teleport on the Thoughtspore might just be as effective in this situation.
You could wall off the other mage and then have the Forcemaster Teleported in and every other threat Teleported out of it.
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What about quick summoning? Beastmaster can summon two creatures per round you've only got one sleep on a spore?
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What about quick summoning? Beastmaster can summon two creatures per round you've only got one sleep on a spore?
Doublestrike/kill the lvl1 and put the other to sleep ? :) until he runs out of lvl1 critters ? :)
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Oh yeah forgot lol
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I've thought about Sleepspores before. If the mage has a some sleeping creatures, a zone attack spell could wake them all up.
Remember to keep the thoughspore in a centre zone so he cant be force-pushed into an arena wall, thus removing the block, dealing damage, and showing that there is no nullify.
If you want to lean into the sleep effects, consider a [mwcard=DNJ06]Nightshade Lotus[/mwcard] in addition. Also a Mass Sleep if they already have a bunch of creatures out.
Also, there are very few psychic immune creatures which can effect fliers: Wolf Spider, Skeleton archer and zombified creatures might be all of them.
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Also, there are very few psychic immune creatures which can effect fliers: Wolf Spider, Skeleton archer and zombified creatures might be all of them.
This is a good point. Still, some Mages can have psychic immune creatures that handle the ground battle, while the Mage itself can concentrate on the fliers. A Wizard, for example, might choose to use the Arcane Zap to trigger a Block/RA and then use a heavier attack spell to take out the thing while his Jellies / Golems ignore the things.
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A Wizard, for example, might choose to use the Arcane Zap to trigger a Block/RA and then use a heavier attack spell to take out the thing while his Jellies / Golems ignore the things.
I think most of us will agree that if you let the enemy mage within 1 zone of a thoughtspore, it deserves to die. Especially if the enemy mage isn't distracted. (arcane zap has a range of 1)
within 2 zones if the thoughtspore doesnt have a facedown enchantment.
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A thoughtspore with sleep is very uneffective against a one-man-army mage too ...
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I think that the Forcemaster in general has some extremely powerful ways to effect what she wants on the battlefield (including Thoughtspore) and is greatly rewarded, even over other mages, for out-thinking your opponent. If you can correctly ascertain what your opponent's overall strategy is, your book should have the answer for it. For instance, it's a terrible idea to put a sleep on your Thoughtspore on turn 1 for the very reason that Schwenkgott says. However, if you see a Lair go down or a big bad creature, then yes sleep is a decent choice.
All that to say that the best Forcemaster is going to drive toward the enemy correctly guessing what he/she will do in response and having a counter already prepared. She's a really rewarding mage to play well.
I've got a best and worst for my Thoughtspore antics:
Best: Acid Ball vs. an armor stacker. To be fair...he should have put more ranged attacks in his book ::)
Worst: Seeking Dispel. I never even cast it. The only good that came out of it was that my opponent was scared to death what I might need all that mana for. :P
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A Wizard, for example, might choose to use the Arcane Zap to trigger a Block/RA and then use a heavier attack spell to take out the thing while his Jellies / Golems ignore the things.
I think most of us will agree that if you let the enemy mage within 1 zone of a thoughtspore, it deserves to die. Especially if the enemy mage isn't distracted. (arcane zap has a range of 1)
within 2 zones if the thoughtspore doesnt have a facedown enchantment.
If the spore is going to have to get within two of the Wizard, the Wizard then could move one while casting the combo.
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I think most of us will agree that if you let the enemy mage within 1 zone of a thoughtspore, it deserves to die. Especially if the enemy mage isn't distracted. (arcane zap has a range of 1)
within 2 zones if the thoughtspore doesnt have a facedown enchantment.
If the spore is going to have to get within two of the Wizard, the Wizard then could move one while casting the combo.
You misunderstand me. I wasn't arguing with you(...though I guess I am now). If the enemy mage two zones away moves to one zone away from your thoughtspore...you just let him get within one zone, and the one zone away points apply.
If your thoughtspore needs to stay alive and be within 2 of the enemy mage(which is something i didnt discuss), you need to lockdown(eg forcehold or tanglevine) the mage and enchant the spore (most of the time).
Thoughtspores can function further from the enemy mage. example is forcepush(the target mage ends up being 3 zones away afterwards). the enemy mage might be hiding/stuck somewhere so you target other things and stay 3 zones away...
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What about quick summoning? Beastmaster can summon two creatures per round you've only got one sleep on a spore?
Doublestrike/kill the lvl1 and put the other to sleep ? :) until he runs out of lvl1 critters ? :)
if they are both flying?
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That's when you tell your second Thoughtspore to "Hit it with a Rock" ([mwcard=MWSTX2FFA02]Hurl Rock[/mwcard])
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I've always found my thoughtspores dying to unavoidable ranged attacks.
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Unavoidable is a trait that is only on ranged 1 attack spells (also on [mwcard=MWSTX1CKA01]Surging Wave[/mwcard], but that can't hit the Thoughtspore anyway). The exception being if they want to use a [mwcard=FWI08]Sniper Shot[/mwcard]. If you keep your spore 2 spaces away from an enemy mage and your Forcemaster between the two, you shouldn't have to deal with Unavoidable.
Protecting spores can be tricky, but I figure if they waste an equal amount of cards on my spore I've come out ahead because if they aren't dealing with my Forcemaster they are losing. Just like a wand, every time you get to use the attached spell is value.
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Arc Lightning
Acid Blast
Sunfire Burst
Windstorm
Firestorm
Flameblast
Geyser
Surging Wave
Sandstorm
Are Attack Spells with either 0-1 or 0-2 Range and the Unavoidable trait
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So, okay, let me clarify. Of all the printed cards that have "unavoidable" that are not promos that are currently legal to play in a tournament only Surging Wave is range 0-2 and it cannot attack flying creatures.
If you are playing with Promos, only Sandstorm can hit a flying creature 2 zones away. Sandstorm is incredibly powerful and will not see print as is. A range 2, quick action, piercing, zone attack for 8 mana? Not going to happen.
All that to say, as has been pointed out, positioning is crucial for a Forcemaster player. That's why she's so good at it. If you are playing well you will keep your Thoughtspores at Max range from their intended target and put a range 0-2 spell on them as well as something defensive (block being the cheapest and hence the reason for worrying about unavoidable) to protect them.
And hey, if they're using an unavoidable attack on your spore instead of your mage then your deflect has the potential to be more useful.
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While mostly true, a [mwcard=FWI08]Sniper Shot[/mwcard] comobo'ed with other 0-2 Ranged Attacks, either Weapon or Attack Spell Based does the job ([mwcard=MW1A04]Fireball[/mwcard]), most players figure this out after a couple of games once they learn to despise a Tportspore or Pushspore.
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It certainly isn't a bad idea to take out Thoughtspores. The person playing the Forcemaster needs to make it less desirable to do so than alternative actions. Making sure that your Galvitar swinging beast is up in their grill is the best option in my opinion.
If I have a Face Down enchant on my spore, then my opponent has to think long and hard about whether to potentially waste a primo attack spell and hope it isn't Block or has to combine both of his actions for the round to take it out with two spell cards. This is assuming, of course, that I'm not stupid and leaving the spore within target range of an arcane zap. Ideally, I have made it so that using a full turn to take out a spore is not a luxury that the opponent has.
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don't only use blocks/RA. Against smarter opponents, I find a brace yourself more successful at keeping an undamaged thoughtspore alive than a block. Try to alternate them.
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don't only use blocks/RA. Against smarter opponents, I find a brace yourself more successful at keeping an undamaged thoughtspore alive than a block. Try to alternate them.
Agree here.
It makes most sense imo to play a Block first and stop an entire attack, then play Brace Yourself in anticipation of your opponent's upcoming unavoidable attack.
But of course if your opponent "knows" you're going to play a block first, he may attack you with an unavoidable attack, so maybe you should switch it up as well and go Brace Yourself first ... mind games :) ... Forcemaster ;)