Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Strategy and Tactics => Topic started by: Charmyna on September 13, 2013, 03:58:14 AM
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In my experience, this build is even stronger than the Wizzly Grizard since it aims at higher channeling early game and still benefits from extra actions. Actually, some believe this build is unbeatable in the current status of the game and after many games they still do not stand corrected ;) (edit: they do now - I played without enough caution). Time will tell. Anyway, for sure it has an amazingly high chance to win against almost every other deck, especially non wizards:
gremlin 3
hydra 3 (edit: from the last couple of games I feel like i need one gorgon archer at least. So I advice switching a hydra for a gorgon)
huginn 1
gargoyle 1
purify 1
minor heal 1
teleport 4
force push 2
dispel 6
seek dispel 2
dissolve 6
shift enchantment 1
fireball 1
geyser 1
surging wave 1
jet stream 1
nullify 4
jinx 2
regrowth 1
bulls endurance 1
rhino hide 2
transfusion 2
harmonize 1
gate 1
fog bank 1
hand of bimshalla 1
Wizards Tower 2
mana kristall 2
renewing spring 1
arcane ring 1
elemental cloak 2
leather gloves 1
dragonscale Haube 2
Mage Wand 3
dispel wand 1
leather boots 1
regrowth belt 2
moonglow amu 1
Basic idea:
The gate to voltari saves actions and compared to other great spawnpoints (e.g. battleforge) it has +1 /+2 channeling. Unlike battleforge, your mage can move freely in each zone of the arena and still use the gate. Its also important to note that with the gate you save a full cast whereas with the BF you do save a quick cast only. Therefore, its easier to summon creatures while running away in case your opponent focuses your mage early.
The downside of the gate is that it can only summon arcane creatures. But gremlins and hydras (if supported with teleport) are really nice creatures and gargoyles/gorgon archers arent bad as well (still I dont use gorgon archers atm because in the majority of games hydras are the better way to go IMO). Hydras had a bad reputation lately because of agony, divine protection and weak. But against those, six dispels, a dispel wand and purify help alot. Therefore, you dont need to be afraid to summon hydras. Although, against gorgon archers it might be tricky with only one purify.
You might think that this build is too slow to win against someone who casts big creatures early or who rushes with strong attack spells. Its definetely not. Voltaric shield together with some early casted armor and regrowth let the wizard survive any onslaught and using the wizard to zap and guard (to protect gremlins) while spawning another creature with the gate and attacking with the wizard tower, really helps to kill small/medium creatures quickly and acquiring board control much quicker than you would think of such a slow opening. Actually, I had many games in which I casted two crystals in round two (after gate+harmonize in round 1), and still got board control quickly even though the opponent casted big creatures early. It is insane how much synergy you get from voltaric shield+zap+gate+wizard tower! Not to forget that gremlins are SO ANNOYING if not fighting on your side. Many opponents complained about them, because they live incredibly long for their low mana cost (especially if the wizard guards them) and with 3 dice+piercing they are something you dont want to ignore for too long.
The opening:
Round 1:
Wizard gate during first QC phase (I often cast it in my starting zone since I dont want the battle to start too early). Harmonize with normal action.
Round 2 and thereafter:
If the opponent uses a slow opening (i.e. two mana flowers or flower+battle forge), I cast mana crystals, moonglow amulet and wiz tower early to gain mana advantage. Otherwise I rely on the gate spawning 1-2 gremlins and cast rhino hide, leather boots/gloves and regrowth on my mage. The order of spells and how much defensive stuff I cast on my mage heavily depends on the opponents play style. But, I try to always have 1 armor at least before he attacks my wizard. Especially if the opponent has 16+ mana in one round, I try to have 2 armor on my wizard just in case he throws two fireballs/hurl boulders.
With the wizards basic attack+zap+ the attacks from the gremlin(s) you can dish out quite some nice damage and save mana to spawn a hydra next round. With 1-2 Hydras and teleport its often GG after a few more rounds.
Some thoughts about the spells:
Dispel: Six of these seem alot, but there are just too many annoying enchantments I want to get rid off, especially against a curse warlock. Cheap dispels is a noticable advantage of the wizard and I want to make use of that.
Dispel Wand: It might look as an overkill to have six dispels, three mage wands and a dispel wand. IMO its not. The nice thing about the dispel wand is that it can be used together with the mage wand, which is especially good if playing wizard since he does not need a melee weapon. Another benefit from the dispel wand is that you loose less spell points if it is dissolved as compared to a mage wand.
Mage Wand: Three mage wands are great since late game is often decided by who has more teleports/force push/dissolves/mage wands.
Dissolve: Six dissolves seems alot again, but equipment is soo great in the current status of the game, that you really dont want to run out of dissolves. Anyway, these dissolves are the main reason for being water wizard.
Huginn: Im not a big fan of him since the spells he casts are gone forever. Still, in this book there are plenty of incantations. Anyway, the main reason for playing huginn is him being my wizards life assurance in case the wizard gets teleported. Having an extra action to get through that jinx/nullify asap, is really important.
Renewing Spring: Im not too sure about this spells, especially since its level two out of school. Still, i think the healing is great and it cant be removed from the game too quickly (as compared to a mage wand with heal). It is the only way to remove corrosion markers (which will hurt this wizard alot) and it helps to remove weak tokens from the hydra after the purify is gone. Still, if you just keep removing those tokens while the opponents gorgon archer shoots on you, im not sure if that works well (although you would heal 5 each round on average, so your hydra wont die but you need to spend mana to remove the tokens). Therefore, I guess I would focus down the gorgon with gremlins/teleport into hydra/wizard tower-fireball before taking care of the weak tokens.
Some spells you might want to add:
Force hold: I know its a great spell to kill the opposing mage or to counter big creatures. But, if its dispelled, you loose four spell points while your opponent looses 0-2. Therefore, with this book I play force hold only if im sure it will put him under really really big pressure (like if used together with enchantment transfusion, jinx, nullify and 1-2 hydras). But, in most of my games, I managed to win without this trick and it really needs alot time for preparation. Anyway, a huginn with two force pushes is often as good as force hold, and having two more force pushes allows me to spend teleports/force pushes without mage wands for a longer time. Still, with a bit different playstayle, it might be worth to put in force hold or tanglevine.
Gorgon Archers: They can be great to slow down your opponent. The reason I do not play them atm is that they are too slow themself as compared to gremlin and hydra+teleport. In most cases I prefer to just kill the opponents creatures asap instead of weakening them. For example, if the opponent summons brogan during a round he has ini, its not too unlikely that I teleport him into my hydra this round for 4.5 damage. Next round I have ini for another 4.5 damage from the hydra and some damage from the wizard tower/my wizards QC. Therefore, if brogan is not healed, he often is dead before he could attack (and a QC nullify or jinx helps against the heal).
Btw against the necros nonliving creatures the gorgon archer wont do much ;). (Edit: As I wrote above, I put a gorgon archer in again. Against some builds its just too important to slow down the opponent, e.g. double grizzly Forcemaster.)
Wall of thorns:
Great to be used with force push. But I prefer to teleport the opponent into hydra(s) instead, since that is still efficient against targets with high armor and it costs less spell points.
I am eager to hear your thoughts about this build and hope you have fun testing/modifying it!
Edit: Just realized I posted this in Strategy and Tactics. Wouldnt mind if someone moves it to Spellbook Design and Construction ;).
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You took out the Gorgons? :O
move enchantment is "shift enchantment"
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You took out the Gorgons? :O
move enchantment is "shift enchantment"
Yeah, during my last iteration of this spell book I removed gorgon archer+force hold to include huginn+bulls endurance+two force pushes. As I said, I didnt summon gorgons alot since they are much slower than hydra damage wise and more vulnurable to being teleported into the opponents horde. To be honest, I need more playtesting before I can tell how confident I feel with this change.
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There is quite some irony within. This build was undefeated for over 40 games and the first game after I made it public I lost ;). It was against a really unusal FM build that I never played against before. He casted no channeling stuff at all, but two grizzlies and a deathlock, supported by four teleports, force pull, jinx and hurl boulder. I guess I could have outlast that if I didnt use three actions for arcane ring and two crystals (in addition to gate+harmonize). I felt too confident after my last games went so well. Should have sticked to my own rules, which tell me not to cast too many things focused on channeling if the opponent does not. If I had spent a few more actions for increasing armor, casting nullify etc instead of arcane ring + crystal, it would have gone alot better. Well, it was the first time I faced a FM with two grizzlies and deathlock ;), which really is a nasty combo.
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Looks like an awesome build. As I mentioned Wizard is my favorite Mage since there is so much versatility and options and different ways you can play it. I have done Earth Wizard, which is OK but my main is an Air Wizard. I've actually never tried a Water Wizard so I will give one a shot. LOTS of control here with all those dispells and dissolves. Will be interesting with Acid Ball and some other Water spells coming out too.
My only tough sell for me is giving up my beloved Gorgons. I just love those things! There is something to be said for just killing stuff vs weakening it, but it's especially fun when there are 4+ weak counters on enemy mage or their favored champion, and I'm like sure go ahead and hit me. Plus the Gorgon's do a fair amount of damage. I do see the risk of the teleport wars though. I kind of don't mind if they focus on my Gorgon (they aren't focusing on me). And since she is weak in same zone as opponent sometimes I give her flying so she can still shoot in the same zone as her target. Flying Gorgon's can be fun. That with her regen ability I just am not sure not having at least 1 (I usually run 2 Gorgons + 1 Basilisk to cripple/weak).
I was going to try the earth wizard with some hydras and a spike trap and port them in and hydra them off. So I presume if you had 2 hydras and a wizard tower and either a tanglevine or spike trap would it be a good idea to TP mage in there and jump them?
I realize the Wizard Tower is situational for what spell to use based on need. But out of curiousity what is your top 1 or 2 picks for what you put on your Wizard Tower?
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Looks like an awesome build. As I mentioned Wizard is my favorite Mage since there is so much versatility and options and different ways you can play it. I have done Earth Wizard, which is OK but my main is an Air Wizard. I've actually never tried a Water Wizard so I will give one a shot. LOTS of control here with all those dispells and dissolves. Will be interesting with Acid Ball and some other Water spells coming out too.
My only tough sell for me is giving up my beloved Gorgons. I just love those things! There is something to be said for just killing stuff vs weakening it, but it's especially fun when there are 4+ weak counters on enemy mage or their favored champion, and I'm like sure go ahead and hit me. Plus the Gorgon's do a fair amount of damage. I do see the risk of the teleport wars though. I kind of don't mind if they focus on my Gorgon (they aren't focusing on me). And since she is weak in same zone as opponent sometimes I give her flying so she can still shoot in the same zone as her target. Flying Gorgon's can be fun. That with her regen ability I just am not sure not having at least 1 (I usually run 2 Gorgons + 1 Basilisk to cripple/weak).
I was going to try the earth wizard with some hydras and a spike trap and port them in and hydra them off. So I presume if you had 2 hydras and a wizard tower and either a tanglevine or spike trap would it be a good idea to TP mage in there and jump them?
I realize the Wizard Tower is situational for what spell to use based on need. But out of curiousity what is your top 1 or 2 picks for what you put on your Wizard Tower?
As I said, im not sure about removing the gorgons. You are right, its not that bad if they are teleported away since its not my mage and the opponent used a teleport at least.
Teleporting a mage into a death zone is tricky since teleport is a two sided coin. He can easily teleport out there as well. So I guess u need some action advantage when doing so (e.g. using Huginn or enchantment transfusion or casting nullify on opponent a round before you teleport him).
My favourites on Wiz tower are jet stream and surging wave, followed by geyser for air targets with defence or to remove burn tokens. I do like having the option to cast a fireball/hurl boulder from the tower as well.
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seems like a great build- The Wizard is an amazing mage- and you 6x6x3 of the dissolved/dispels/wands isn't over kill if you have the points to spare- I could see a normal control forcemaster causing this build a bit of trouble, pushing the hydras (Which is a problem when they are slow, and adds cost to teleport),holding the hydras, mind control on one hydra to take out the other- with her defence and force field she could deflect some of those attacks and attack spells. You could swarm her well with the gremlins though- those little jerks can cause a problem.
And I could see where you could have trouble against another wizard build- there would be a lot of back and forth, where someone would just have to gain that advantage in footing to gain momentum.
One huge advantage the wizard has is his arcane zap- I will zap my sleeping creatures like no other!
Do you find that cheetah speed for the hydras has no place in your build? I would think the 2 spell points would be worth it. Or even a charge? I know you have teleports and forcepush, and thats the best way to move the hydras- but sometimes it mana intensive- and I know I like to keep a back up cheetah speed for my hydras (Or really more forcepush)- just putting it out there.
I think 3 wands is a good number actually- If I dissolved two of you wands- I would just not use it on the third, I wouldn't.
Those are my initial thoughts (right or wrong), Overall I think its a great build, has a great balance of control and "damage ramp" as you can do quick damage (That should go a long way early game) that leads up to some midgame high damage output. And you have options, for early and midgame, which is great.
Good job!
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seems like a great build- The Wizard is an amazing mage- and you 6x6x3 of the dissolved/dispels/wands isn't over kill if you have the points to spare- I could see a normal control forcemaster causing this build a bit of trouble, pushing the hydras (Which is a problem when they are slow, and adds cost to teleport),holding the hydras, mind control on one hydra to take out the other- with her defence and force field she could deflect some of those attacks and attack spells. You could swarm her well with the gremlins though- those little jerks can cause a problem.
And I could see where you could have trouble against another wizard build- there would be a lot of back and forth, where someone would just have to gain that advantage in footing to gain momentum.
One huge advantage the wizard has is his arcane zap- I will zap my sleeping creatures like no other!
Do you find that cheetah speed for the hydras has no place in your build? I would think the 2 spell points would be worth it. Or even a charge? I know you have teleports and forcepush, and thats the best way to move the hydras- but sometimes it mana intensive- and I know I like to keep a back up cheetah speed for my hydras (Or really more forcepush)- just putting it out there.
I think 3 wands is a good number actually- If I dissolved two of you wands- I would just not use it on the third, I wouldn't.
Those are my initial thoughts (right or wrong), Overall I think its a great build, has a great balance of control and "damage ramp" as you can do quick damage (That should go a long way early game) that leads up to some midgame high damage output. And you have options, for early and midgame, which is great.
Good job!
Thx for the thoughts :).
You talked about the FM pushing the hydras. The inherent force pull cant be used to push the hydras away, therefore thats no problem. But, the Forcemasters force push is cheaper spell point wise than the teleports are for me. This might be a little problem. Still, with 3 mage wands and all those teleports/force pushes I doubt it does really matter.
Chetah speed on the hydra can help for sure. The problem is that chetah speed (or charge) wont allow the hydra to move and still use its main attack. Therefore, I often prefer to just teleport her.
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Looks cool, but I'm not sure how I feel about it. It seems very beatable, but obviously I haven't played against it. That wasn't a criticism by the way, I'm just being honest of my perception of the build at first glance. I'm sure it's deceptively good and I'm sure you're a very good player, but I'd like to give it a play or two and see how I do against it.
I still haven't gotten a single game in on OCTGN though :( Every time I log on, there are no games listed, which is a shame.
I'm going to try again this weekend, and maybe I can get a game in with you. I'd love to
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Looks cool, but I'm not sure how I feel about it. It seems very beatable, but obviously I haven't played against it. That wasn't a criticism by the way, I'm just being honest of my perception of the build at first glance. I'm sure it's deceptively good and I'm sure you're a very good player, but I'd like to give it a play or two and see how I do against it.
I heard the same from other players. Gate+Hydra kinda look like what a MW beginner would play. Still, if supported with the right spells and played with caution, its a really nice strategy.
I still haven't gotten a single game in on OCTGN though :( Every time I log on, there are no games listed, which is a shame.
I'm going to try again this weekend, and maybe I can get a game in with you. I'd love to
I would be happy to play against you! Often, there is no game listed but there are people online willing to join your game if you open one. If noone joins, it can help to check if someone from the list of MW octgn players is online: http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=12862.0
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Yeah- good points Charmyna- I was just overall thinking if some one was controling your creatures for the game it might cause you problems- and good point with the cheetah speed, I do end up using that quick attack alot more then I ever plan to though- Teleport and push is the best option. (I tend to run more push, or bind push on a wand myself)
I need to try that OCTGN- but I just hate virtual play so much....but I want to play with some of you- so I am conflicted.
And Gate is the best spawnpoint IMO (As of right now!)
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Yeah- good points Charmyna- I was just overall thinking if some one was controling your creatures for the game it might cause you problems- and good point with the cheetah speed, I do end up using that quick attack alot more then I ever plan to though- Teleport and push is the best option. (I tend to run more push, or bind push on a wand myself)
I need to try that OCTGN- but I just hate virtual play so much....but I want to play with some of you- so I am conflicted.
And Gate is the best spawnpoint IMO (As of right now!)
Would be great to have more formidable players in Octgn! Sure, playing MW in RL is much better, but Octgn really helps to bring people from all over the world together :).
Gate rules!
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Yeah- good points Charmyna- I was just overall thinking if some one was controling your creatures for the game it might cause you problems- and good point with the cheetah speed, I do end up using that quick attack alot more then I ever plan to though- Teleport and push is the best option. (I tend to run more push, or bind push on a wand myself)
I need to try that OCTGN- but I just hate virtual play so much....but I want to play with some of you- so I am conflicted.
And Gate is the best spawnpoint IMO (As of right now!)
Would be great to have more formidable players in Octgn! Sure, playing MW in RL is much better, but Octgn really helps to bring people from all over the world together :).
Gate rules!
Lol, I just realized that you have the "Dark Destroyer" title now that The Dude was calling you. Awesome ;D
Yeah, I'd rather play IRL too, but at least OCTGN lets people play when they otherwise couldn't. I personally have only played three games in the last three months IRL :(
Hopefully I'll be able to get some OCTGN time in this weekend (maybe tonight). But it will probably be rough going since I won't be familiar with the interface...so be gentle with me if I fumble my way through ;)
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Lol, I just realized that you have the "Dark Destroyer" title now that The Dude was calling you. Awesome ;D
8)
Hopefully I'll be able to get some OCTGN time in this weekend (maybe tonight). But it will probably be rough going since I won't be familiar with the interface...so be gentle with me if I fumble my way through ;)
Thats cool. I'm patient and just happy to play with someone from the forums :).
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I did download and install the OCTGN client and card packs. I should really try that sometime. Getting a real game in with my mentor wold be kind of cool, even if the Dark Destroyer destroys me. That is a valuable lesson.
Honestly it is the interface thing that has been holding me back, but I guess you have to play a game or two to figure it out. I just hate to hold people up or be that "slow" one :o
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^ I hear ya- When I got my VT for MtG- Players would drop out because I forgot to hit the macro to move to the next phase- (Like if I draw during the upkeep phase I broke the game!)
But MW fans are so nice- I wouldn't worry about it!
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I did download and install the OCTGN client and card packs. I should really try that sometime. Getting a real game in with my mentor wold be kind of cool, even if the Dark Destroyer destroys me. That is a valuable lesson.
Honestly it is the interface thing that has been holding me back, but I guess you have to play a game or two to figure it out. I just hate to hold people up or be that "slow" one :o
Thats really no prob. You might want to watch the beginners guide video before your first game to quicken it up:
http://www.twitch.tv/charmyna/c/2789301
But, even if u dont, most MW Octgn players dont mind explaining stuff since they are happy you joined the community :).
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I did download and install the OCTGN client and card packs. I should really try that sometime. Getting a real game in with my mentor wold be kind of cool, even if the Dark Destroyer destroys me. That is a valuable lesson.
Honestly it is the interface thing that has been holding me back, but I guess you have to play a game or two to figure it out. I just hate to hold people up or be that "slow" one :o
Honestly, this has been an issue for me too. I have kind of an "interfaceophobia" ;) I know that my first games will be slow and cumbersome and probably annoying to my opponent, and I also know that it will probably be a big distraction for me so that I play very poorly (this game is very mental after all). I need to just get it over with so that I feel comfortable with the interface and I'll be good...but that first game is intimidating ;)
What they need is a way to play with the interface WITHOUT being in an actual game so you can get a feel for how it ever works, because I really have no idea how to actually do anything in the game right now.
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I did download and install the OCTGN client and card packs. I should really try that sometime. Getting a real game in with my mentor wold be kind of cool, even if the Dark Destroyer destroys me. That is a valuable lesson.
Honestly it is the interface thing that has been holding me back, but I guess you have to play a game or two to figure it out. I just hate to hold people up or be that "slow" one :o
Thats really no prob. You might want to watch the beginners guide video before your first game to quicken it up:
http://www.twitch.tv/charmyna/c/2789301
But, even if u dont, most MW Octgn players dont mind explaining stuff since they are happy you joined the community :).
I will be checking that out tonight! Thanks for the link, didn't know there was a tutorial out there :)
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I did download and install the OCTGN client and card packs. I should really try that sometime. Getting a real game in with my mentor wold be kind of cool, even if the Dark Destroyer destroys me. That is a valuable lesson.
Honestly it is the interface thing that has been holding me back, but I guess you have to play a game or two to figure it out. I just hate to hold people up or be that "slow" one :o
Honestly, this has been an issue for me too. I have kind of an "interfaceophobia" ;) I know that my first games will be slow and cumbersome and probably annoying to my opponent, and I also know that it will probably be a big distraction for me so that I play very poorly (this game is very mental after all). I need to just get it over with so that I feel comfortable with the interface and I'll be good...but that first game is intimidating ;)
What they need is a way to play with the interface WITHOUT being in an actual game so you can get a feel for how it ever works, because I really have no idea how to actually do anything in the game right now.
There is a way! You just need two Octgn accounts (they are free so no real prob). Open a game with one account and join with the second. Thats what I did to make that tutorial video.
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Honestly it is the interface thing that has been holding me back, but I guess you have to play a game or two to figure it out. I just hate to hold people up or be that "slow" one :o
Don't worry about this aspect, as everyone including Charmyna and I have had to learn how to play on OCTGN. you'll take a couple of notes and use them to play through one or two games and then you will be ready to teach the next person. One of the great aspect of OCTGN is ability to play outside of your normal meta, many ways much like tournament. Strats and Cards that work well locally will get shreaded and things that you never thought about will see the day of light. You do miss the F2F interaction (and I the Cigar that goes with game day). All in all a fair trade off.
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Honestly, this has been an issue for me too. I have kind of an "interfaceophobia" ;)
Yeah- I am glad I am not the only one-
This makes me feel better- Imight give it a shot.
(I will only beable to play late nights though (10ish-I feel old saying thats late!) .....Or I would have to drop out every time my kid needed something.
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Honestly, this has been an issue for me too. I have kind of an "interfaceophobia" ;)
Yeah- I am glad I am not the only one-
This makes me feel better- Imight give it a shot.
(I will only beable to play late nights though (10ish-I feel old saying thats late!) .....Or I would have to drop out every time my kid needed something.
You guys make me laugh. Sounds like we need an interfaceophobia support group! :P I suppose if we just each get a sponsor, they show us how to play a game, we can sponsor others and spread the word of OCTGN.
Pay it forward! 8)
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I know I am going to miss play like a mother......
at the risk of ridicule- I am going to try it out.
Instaling now.
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I know I am going to miss play like a mother......
at the risk of ridicule- I am going to try it out.
Instaling now.
Yeah! Dont let that interfaceophobia control you!
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yay played my 1st online Mage Wars game. Someone was nice enough (and patient enough) to sit and explain everything, let me test, and play through. Wasn't as bad as I thought. A tad intimidating at first but not bad after a few plays.
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I got to play two games with The Dude- and he was very kind and put up with my terrible playing! (Or misplaying rather!)
I had alot of fun, and will play again!
Charmyna- You have challenge me to the Arena- Prepare yourself! (That is-when I find you on!)
I feel bad I missed your message Charmyna.... :-[
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Dafuq did this thread turn into?
playing MW on OCTGN is really simple and tbh its easier than reallife.
Paying mana costs is easier to remember because you get used to double clicking twice.
And its possible to go back and correct minor mistakes like "hey did I forget to add mana to gate of voltari or not".
Paying correct mana is almost bulletproof since the chat records everything. Pretty much every live game I had to trust my opponent at some point because people fiddle around with their cube on the mana track "oh... I payed 3 too much --- oh wait I get 1 discount... well this is correect now!!!" - "how much mana did you have for a start?" - "I don't know, but this is correct!" "eehhhookay"
Its easier and faster to move cards and enchantments with condition markers and damage on them on the board.
Its ALOT faster to browse through your spellbook on OCTGN than doing so in reallife.
Automated channeling removes the chance of human errors once again.
Its faster to add / remove damage to creatures - I guess I have to invest in dice for damage when playing physical form.
EDIT:
I for got... its easier to roll 10 dice on OCTGN. I always end up rerolling 3 times because a couple goes to the floor, while others push off damage counters etc.
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Dafuq did this thread turn into?
playing MW on OCTGN is really simple and tbh its easier than reallife.
Paying mana costs is easier to remember because you get used to double clicking twice.
And its possible to go back and correct minor mistakes like "hey did I forget to add mana to gate of voltari or not".
Paying correct mana is almost bulletproof since the chat records everything. Pretty much every live game I had to trust my opponent at some point because people fiddle around with their cube on the mana track "oh... I payed 3 too much --- oh wait I get 1 discount... well this is correect now!!!" - "how much mana did you have for a start?" - "I don't know, but this is correct!" "eehhhookay"
Its easier and faster to move cards and enchantments with condition markers and damage on them on the board.
Its ALOT faster to browse through your spellbook on OCTGN than doing so in reallife.
Automated channeling removes the chance of human errors once again.
Its faster to add / remove damage to creatures - I guess I have to invest in dice for damage when playing physical form.
EDIT:
I for got... its easier to roll 10 dice on OCTGN. I always end up rerolling 3 times because a couple goes to the floor, while others push off damage counters etc.
Well...........we didn't know what it did- thus this thread getting derailed.
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There is quite some irony within. This build was undefeated for over 40 games and the first game after I made it public I lost ;). It was against a really unusal FM build that I never played against before. He casted no channeling stuff at all, but two grizzlies and a deathlock, supported by four teleports, force pull, jinx and hurl boulder. I guess I could have outlast that if I didnt use three actions for arcane ring and two crystals (in addition to gate+harmonize). I felt too confident after my last games went so well. Should have sticked to my own rules, which tell me not to cast too many things focused on channeling if the opponent does not. If I had spent a few more actions for increasing armor, casting nullify etc instead of arcane ring + crystal, it would have gone alot better. Well, it was the first time I faced a FM with two grizzlies and deathlock ;), which really is a nasty combo.
I play a similar FMbuild and I know it can be brutal. In almost 10 games in never lost (sometimes very close). Also with 2 grizzly and the synergies of force pull, deathlock, ... Problem with the deck is you cant include lots of spells because the grizzly are 24points. If the game takes to long i'm in a huge disadvantage and that's where you can shine :). If you can survive the rush treat and somehow control or destroy the grizzly it is hard (beware of the melee power of the FM) for the FM to win.
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Lets get this train back on track :P
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so charmyna, you morphed the grizzly build into saving spell book points and adding in more arcane creatures and the spawn point. it seemed to me that while the grizzly is certainly awesome and powerful, it just costs too much to play it out of school. that is just my opinion though. i am a huge fan of the archer over the hydra becuase it is so useful for wimping out opponent creatures and beater mage builds. it is really fun to weakend the blood reapers and avengers until they are basically useless and then ignored for the remainder of the game.
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so charmyna, you morphed the grizzly build into saving spell book points and adding in more arcane creatures and the spawn point. it seemed to me that while the grizzly is certainly awesome and powerful, it just costs too much to play it out of school. that is just my opinion though. i am a huge fan of the archer over the hydra becuase it is so useful for wimping out opponent creatures and beater mage builds. it is really fun to weakend the blood reapers and avengers until they are basically useless and then ignored for the remainder of the game.
Well, I still really like the grizzly build and im not sure which of these two builds has a higher chance to win if facing each other. The grizzly build is the more aggressive one so I guess its better suited in a short game whereas the watergate build has much more creatures to summon and therefore shines in the long run.
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I tried it yesterday... That spellbook is just da bomb. It is so versatile, it can be used oftensive or defensive. And the amount of dispell/disolve/teleport is a PITA for the opponent.
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Has anyone tried playing Watergate in a 4 or 5 round tournament? I feel like I might get to the finals, but I'd be totally braindead for the last match.
Though I'm probably more susceptible to attention fatigue than most.
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I bring this back to ask how the Watergate evolved with the latest expansions?
of course Acid Ball made its way into the spellbook and at least 1 hydra got changed for a jelly. But what else could have changed?
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Charmyna eventually turned it into Blasting Banker, I think, because of Acid Ball.
If you were interested in playing Watergate these days, there isn't much in Forged in Fire to help you out, as far as I know, other than Rust, and that points more toward BB, same as Acid Ball did. Defend and Brace Yourself are novice, so those are options, too. Akiro's Favor isn't terrible with Surging Wave, but it costs 2 spellbook points, and that's not how WW wants to play.
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Charmyna eventually turned it into Blasting Banker, I think, because of Acid Ball.
If you were interested in playing Watergate these days, there isn't much in Forged in Fire to help you out, as far as I know, other than Rust, and that points more toward BB, same as Acid Ball did. Defend and Brace Yourself are novice, so those are options, too. Akiro's Favor isn't terrible with Surging Wave, but it costs 2 spellbook points, and that's not how WW wants to play.
i do not have such an interest. i felt then and still do, that running out of school creatures is not the best way to run a wizard. better to save spell points for other things rather than waste them on novelties. though i am sure to get negative feedback for that opinion.
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We must be thinking of very different spellbooks. Watergate as I understand it is a Water trained Wizard, running Gate to Voltari. Its a spellbook-point efficiency focused strategy that summons Hydras, Gremlins, Gargoyles, Jellies and Gorgons while packing 6 Dissolves, 6 Dispels, and a whole lot of Nullifies, Teleports, Acid Balls, Surging Wave, etc. It's the last spellbook on earth that would want to run an out of school creature.
If you look at Charmyna's initial post, the creature mix is:
3 gremlin
2 hydra
1 Gorgon
1 Huginn
1 gargoyle
Though I know it evolved a lot from that, later.
What's Watergate like where you play?
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You are very correct. I was thinking of the book containing grizzlies. I felt that was a fair amount of wasted spell points. Eventually I think he ended up changing it.
Of course for fun casual play it would be enteraining to drop things like that on an unsuspecting opponent.
I think the water wizard is not quite viable yet. I suspect after pvs drops that would likely change presuming there would be some additional water spells or perhaps creatures.
In my area we build our own books and do not copy from online. So there is no watergate play going on. I play against Steve who won last years Origins and Gencon, plus some other decent players.
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@zot: Water Wizard is probably the strongest mage at the moment. Watergate build was the strongest build as far as I can tell. Eventualy Charmany switched to Blasting Banker, but I am still wondering if he continue to play Watergate because I think WG and BB are very different.
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We will simply have disagree. The only thing i can say to convince you otherwise is mana/dice ratio...
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Mana/Dice ratio? What are you talking about? The Watergate Wizard is built around hardcore attrition. It runs 6 copies of Dispel and Dissolve, efficient creatures that can be brought out with Gate to Voltari, and is dedicated to gaining a spell book advantage by using more efficient cards to answer your threats.
The water attack spells are certainly nice, but they're not primarily for dealing damage themselves. You don't use Acid Ball to deal damage, you use it to strip Armor so that other things can deal damage (like Darkfenne Hydra). You don't use Surging Wave to deal lots of damage, you use it to put out fires or make a guard lose an action.
Having cheap access to Dissolve is the primary reason to run a Wizard with water training at the moment.
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I can see Zot's point. If the game goes long enough, Watergate inevitably wins, but if the game can be made into a question of mana efficiency in the medium run, Watergate can have problems. Curse Warlock, for example, can be a bad time if they bring enough Nullifies and curses.
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But a curse warlock would have a very hard time landing a curse. Would need to bypass all the nullify and transmuted jinx. Then curse would get dispelled.
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Warlock can use Enchantment Transfusion, too, remember.
If the Wizard is really dedicated to having Nullify on at all times, the Warlock can instead curse his or her own Demon, and then Enchantment Transfusion those curses over to the Wizard. Doing this won't trigger the Wizard's Nullify.
And if the Warlock is clever, one of the enchantments Transfused onto the Wizard will be a Nullify cast by the Warlock, to counter the Purge Magic / Purify that the Wizard will have prepared.
And then if the Wizard is clever, they'll have Destroy Magic available instead.
And then if the Warlock is clever.... You can see how this goes.
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Warlock can use Enchantment Transfusion, too, remember.
If the Wizard is really dedicated to having Nullify on at all times, the Warlock can instead curse his or her own Demon, and then Enchantment Transfusion those curses over to the Wizard. Doing this won't trigger the Wizard's Nullify.
And if the Warlock is clever, one of the enchantments Transfused onto the Wizard will be a Nullify cast by the Warlock, to counter the Purge Magic / Purify that the Wizard will have prepared.
And then if the Wizard is clever, they'll have Destroy Magic available instead.
And then if the Warlock is clever.... You can see how this goes.
Yep, during that time the warlock get eaten alive by creature coming out of Gate ;)
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Yeah, standing between a pair of angry Darkfenne Hydras in a puddle of Corrode tokens is rarely pleasant. Luckily, it is usually brief. Either you escape, or you die in short order.
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Warlock can use Enchantment Transfusion, too, remember.
If the Wizard is really dedicated to having Nullify on at all times, the Warlock can instead curse his or her own Demon, and then Enchantment Transfusion those curses over to the Wizard. Doing this won't trigger the Wizard's Nullify.
And if the Warlock is clever, one of the enchantments Transfused onto the Wizard will be a Nullify cast by the Warlock, to counter the Purge Magic / Purify that the Wizard will have prepared.
And then if the Wizard is clever, they'll have Destroy Magic available instead.
And then if the Warlock is clever.... You can see how this goes.
Clearly I cannot choose the cup in front of me...
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Warlock can use Enchantment Transfusion, too, remember.
If the Wizard is really dedicated to having Nullify on at all times, the Warlock can instead curse his or her own Demon, and then Enchantment Transfusion those curses over to the Wizard. Doing this won't trigger the Wizard's Nullify.
And if the Warlock is clever, one of the enchantments Transfused onto the Wizard will be a Nullify cast by the Warlock, to counter the Purge Magic / Purify that the Wizard will have prepared.
And then if the Wizard is clever, they'll have Destroy Magic available instead.
And then if the Warlock is clever.... You can see how this goes.
Clearly I cannot choose the cup in front of me...
You're trying to get me to give something away. It won't work.
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I take the Red Pill....
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I just returned for a quick view at this forum and I have to say its kinda amazing that this thread is still active and people still play Watergate and Blasting Banker :D. I hope to have more time to play in the future, but for now I just wanted to say I will return to MW - its too good not to :P.
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I just returned for a quick view at this forum and I have to say its kinda amazing that this thread is still active and people still play Watergate and Blasting Banker :D. I hope to have more time to play in the future, but for now I just wanted to say I will return to MW - its too good not to :P.
Well someone has been going around necro-ing the crap out of everything soo....
Good to hear, though.
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Well someone has been going around necro-ing the crap out of everything soo....
Good to hear, though.
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I have seen people be reprimanded for starting new threads when old ones exist. Basically the forum encourages necromancy as a result as people have to track down old threads to ask questions. I would not look at it as a negative thing. It seems like the same 4 or 5 people are commenting on most of the stuff so it is a good thing that new blood is popping in to ask questions and keep the forum alive.
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Excuse me for asking what may be an obvious question, but what spell do you use with the wizard's tower? I didn't see this stated.
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Excuse me for asking what may be an obvious question, but what spell do you use with the wizard's tower? I didn't see this stated.
You will see there are 4 attack spells, think of them as a tool box and during the planning phase the most useful spell (a prediction of course) for the upcoming round is prepared. I.E. I played a wall of thorns and would like to Push Push Push (and have enough mana) the mage this round, so I prepare Surging Wave.
That book was built soon after the release of DvN so hasn't been updated in a bit, my guess is that the update would include an Acid Ball now.