Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => General Discussion => Topic started by: Laddinfance on September 11, 2013, 10:31:38 PM
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http://magewars.com/jsite/newsblog/item/179-d-v-n-preview-the-druid
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Just to be clear on Spreading Vines, here is the Rulebook Text.
Spreading Vines
Life springs up in the footsteps of the Druid. Each Deployment Phase, the Druid may place a new Vine marker in her zone. Or, she may instead place that marker in a zone, or adjacent to a zone, containing a Vine marker she controls. The Druid, and her spawnpoints and familiars, can use her Vine markers to extend the range of vine spells they cast. See “Vine Markers” in the codex.
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I have questions abut Vines to see if I understand it correctly. Leet's say situation looks like this:
(http://imageshack.com/a/img842/7787/nle4.jpg)
1. Can I place Vines in:
a) Zone with Mage [M]
b) Zone next to mage, it's zone with [1]
c) Zone [2] if there is at least one Vine marker in zone [1]
d) Can't place Vine marker in zone [2] if there is no Vines in zone [1]
2. If there is Vine marker in zone [2] and mage is in zone [M] I can summon creature with Vine subtype (for example Vine Snapper) in zone [2]?
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If there is 0 vines on the board (like in round 1) then you can only place in the mages zone.
If there is vines on the board (you control) you can choose to place one in either of the following ways:
1) In the zone with your mage.
2) You can place in a zone that you already have a vine marker. (doing this results in 2 vine markers in the same zone).
3) Place in a zone adjacent to a zone where you already have one or more vine marker(s).
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I like that Lifebond works both ways, and gets around ignores the finite life trait. That is cool! :)
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A lot to digest with this mage, not sure how I feel about her just yet. She seems cool, but there are so many components to her that it's hard to see how good she will be (plus we haven't seen all of her toys yet). It looks like they are going to have to issue errata on a few cards though to work with her, someone already mentioned Tanglevine plus there is the Great Tree of Life which is not listed as a tree... Issuing those kinds of errata's are kind of messy and not good IMO because you don't want people to have to always be referring to a FAQ in order to play the game, but it would be kind of lame to NOT errata them too.
While she seems good, I do have a few caveats. I may just be a bit gun-shy from the Warlord, but all of her limitations smell of overbalance, like they were so afraid of her capabilities that they overly restricted her (just like the Warlord). Maybe that's not the case, and I'm not saying it is (yet), I'm just getting that feeling when I look her over (the limitation of level 1 Water spells screams of overbalance to me).
Another thing that I have a concern over is her spellbook building flexibility. There is already a large chunk of cards that are pretty much mandatory to include in pretty much every spellbook (Teleport, Dispel, Dissolve, Etc), but on top of that, the Druid seems like you pretty much have to build her a certain way or she won't do much. Druid spellbooks will probably all seem very similar, since they will all include many of the same attack spells, creatures and conjurations with very little variation. I'm not a fan of mages whose builds are basically predetermined (like the Forcemaster).
She also seems like she has a hard counter already in the game (like rock beating scissors) in the form of fire spells. Due to her reliance on plants, it seems like the Warlorck and/or a Fire Wizard would wreck her. But perhaps not due to regeneration and easy access to Geyser and the like, I guess we'll see.
I'm not trying to be all negative about the Druid, I think she looks fun and I'm excited to try her out, but part of me is scared that she is the worst part of the Forcemaster (predetermined path of play and little variation in spellbook design) combined with the worst part of the Warlord (overbalanced).
I hope my fears are misplaced and she's awesome with lots of varied builds available to her because I don't want another mage that sits around in my collection and only comes out when I want to play a "fun" build.
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There is lots of ways you could take a "Nature Mage". You don't have to go plants, you could go animals and augment with plants. Since she is trained in Nature and lvl 1 Water, this is the first kind of water mage we've seen and there is some good cards in water school that can add some variety. And I am not sure how many other non plant stuff she gets but that raptor animal looks cool, and there are other cool animals she can control. I kind of almost think of her as a Beastlord with plant abilities too. That can provide a lot of flexible fun "different" builds for her.
Having fire and war be triple can be worked around. Everything else is just double like it is for most of the other mages.
What I am leary of is the counter vs counter type system. Like almost designing some of the Druid abilities to counter some of the Necromancer abilities (ie innate life, and life bond ignores finite life etc). Don't get me wrong that is a cool mechanic. And conversely to actually ever "kill" a necromancer creature and remove it from game you need to "devour" it? So if the Necro plays any other mage that isn't using devour will the Necro be OP and hard to deal with that horde of zombies that won't go down? I'm afraid of the necro resurrecting my angels or vampires or hydras or something big and turning zombie angels or hydras on me!
Regardless looking to try them both out. I still can't decide which I like better. The Necro seems to have cooler "toys" more unique but the Druid feels more solid (long term end game wise).
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A major potential weakness might be her dependence on her tree bond. She could probably have been another low health 10 channeling Mage, but instead she has to cast and defend a tree, too. It's weird to build an Achilles heel into the design.
To me, level 1 training in Water seems like a designers' compromise: she needed some water spells to interact with her plants--and Dissolve plays well with the already established nature themes--but giving her full water training would have meant putting a bunch of water spells into the expansion, which there isn't really room for. I don't think it's much of a loss in power level, especially because there aren't many (any?) higher level water spells.
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There is lots of ways you could take a "Nature Mage". You don't have to go plants, you could go animals and augment with plants.
Of course, but you have to include vines if you want to take advantage of her Spreading Vines ability, and you have to include at least one tree if you want to use her Treebond. While you only have to include one tree, you have to have a decent amount of vines, otherwise her Spreading Vines ability doesn't do anything. Maybe she'll have other ways to take advantage of vine markers, but right now, they requrie Vine spells to do anything. I mean, come on, I never said that she didn't have room for animals in her build, I just said that between the "mandatory" spells (like Teleport, Dispel, Disolve, etc) and the need to include vines and trees to make her abilities work and the obligatory level 1 water spells, Druid books will probably look VERY similar, with little variation.
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Actually in the news article about the Druid (http://magewars.com/jsite/newsblog) it says that vines also hinder opposing non-flyers so they aren't completely useless without vine spells ... I think that the Druid has potential to be a very interesting mage that you can build as either control, turtle or aggro. We'll see though :)
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She is VERY interesting- My favorite mage so far.
She is not difficult to use once you play a game or two with her- but she does do is presents you with a lot of options and versatility.
Those cards are getting erattra- so no worries there.
And I can assure you- she is in no way bound to a specific play style or build ect... She has alot of different ways she can go. I have had many druid builds and they don't have to ever look the same- and she will be good.
In fact- her build options are very versatile.
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I do hope that there's a good alternative to Etherian Lifetree, now that we know what it does. Casting it seems like a chore. You've got to cast a tree conjuration for treebond, and it'll probably help your creatures some, but it's also going to buff your opponent's Vamp or Hydra or Troll or Gorgon or whatever. It's great against Necromancer, and Earth Mage, but it's very much not an aggressive card and breaking the symmetry seems more a matter of chance than intent.
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She is VERY interesting- My favorite mage so far.
She is not difficult to use once you play a game or two with her- but she does do is presents you with a lot of options and versatility.
Those cards are getting erattra- so no worries there.
And I can assure you- she is in no way bound to a specific play style or build ect... She has alot of different ways she can go. I have had many druid builds and they don't have to ever look the same- and she will be good.
In fact- her build options are very versatile.
That's good to hear, I was hoping there was more to her. Like I said, I'm probably a bit gun-shy from the Warlord who turned out to be a bit of a dissapointment so perhaps I'm viewing everything through a lens of skepticisim (although I love the new Beastmaster and Priest).
I'm pumped to try her out for sure and I can't wait to see more spells, but I'm really pumped for the Necro :)
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I do hope that there's a good alternative to Etherian Lifetree, now that we know what it does. Casting it seems like a chore. You've got to cast a tree conjuration for treebond, and it'll probably help your creatures some, but it's also going to buff your opponent's Vamp or Hydra or Troll or Gorgon or whatever. It's great against Necromancer, and Earth Mage, but it's very much not an aggressive card and breaking the symmetry seems more a matter of chance than intent.
Well Togorah the Forest Sentinal is a tree and I'm sure they are going to errata Moktari the Great Tree of Life to be a tree, so there are three options right there. Hopefully there will be at least one more, but we'll see.
Edit: ugh, it needs to be a tree conjuration so Togorah doesn't work. Lame.
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They are- that and tangle vine.
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I do hope that there's a good alternative to Etherian Lifetree, now that we know what it does. Casting it seems like a chore. You've got to cast a tree conjuration for treebond, and it'll probably help your creatures some, but it's also going to buff your opponent's Vamp or Hydra or Troll or Gorgon or whatever. It's great against Necromancer, and Earth Mage, but it's very much not an aggressive card and breaking the symmetry seems more a matter of chance than intent.
Also, as far as Etherian goes, it actually looks like an interesting card. It's an awesome way to buff swarm build (which need buffing badly). Think about it, most builds right now are focusing on "one big" strategies or "few big". So the tree might end up giving that Hydra and Gorgon controlled by your opponent two life each, but if you're playing a Beastmaster and are spamming Foxes and Falcons (for Core BM) or plants (Druid) and they are getting two life each, you're coming out way ahead and your swarm is much more hardy. Not having your Foxes/Falcons/Bobcats one shotted can be quite a big deal. I'm very interested in trying this out to see if it works in this capacity.
Oh, and it also makes your Tanglevines and Wall of Thorns more hardy, which may or may not be all that helpful, but it shouldn't be dismissed without consideration.
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Why do you need errata on tanglevine and Mohktari, Great tree of life?
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Why do you need errata on tanglevine and Mohktari, Great tree of life?
So that Tanglevine is a Vine and the Mohktari is a Tree ;)
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The Druid can only bond to tree conjurations, but there are several options for her to bond with. You'll get to see my favorite one soon.
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Why do you need errata on tanglevine and Mohktari, Great tree of life?
So that Tanglevine is a Vine and the Mohktari is a Tree ;)
please elaborate? or I have to guess....
You wanna bond with mohktari?
You wanna cast tangle vine further than 2 zones away?
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Mechanically that is why. Thematically it's because it just makes sense.
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I certainly do!
Vines are more threatening if they can become Tanglevine after they've hindered something.
The vines do seem like they're kinda slow, unless there are other ways to put them down. I don't yet see Druid's Agro's potential. The fastest way I can see to drop a vine on your opponent's starting zone is to run the Druid there on turn 3, but that's not really the point of the ability.
Defensively, maybe they'll be better? They seem a bit like Outposts. The board isn't really large enough to make them useful?
The Warlord tried to encourage building a fort, and now the druid is trying to encourage building a forest, and I just kinda wonder if that's all so much playing Sim City while the other guy is preparing for war.
Mechanical Engineers build weapons, Civil Engineers build targets.
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Why do you need errata on tanglevine and Mohktari, Great tree of life?
So that Tanglevine is a Vine and the Mohktari is a Tree ;)
please elaborate? or I have to guess....
You wanna bond with mohktari?
You wanna cast tangle vine further than 2 zones away?
Well yeah :) These two cards are obviously a vine and a tree respectively and they should have those traits so that they can interact with the Druid's abilities if you so choose. Just makes sense.
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Tanglevine and Mohktari are getting errata... What about Wall of Thorns? Seems like a natural fit.
As an aside I hope she has an incantation that allows her to place additional vine markers. Something like Verdant Growth - place 3 vine markers, one after the other.
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Tanglevine and Mohktari are getting errata... What about Wall of Thorns? Seems like a natural fit.
As an aside I hope she has an incantation that allows her to place additional vine markers. Something like Verdant Growth - place 3 vine markers, one after the other.
Yeah, Wall of Thorns should be a Vine too, I thought of that one but hadn't listed it
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Tanglevine and Mohktari are getting errata... What about Wall of Thorns? Seems like a natural fit.
As an aside I hope she has an incantation that allows her to place additional vine markers. Something like Verdant Growth - place 3 vine markers, one after the other.
It does though, I could see them passing on that one. It could be interpreted as a bush or something. Tanglevine and Mohktari actually say they are a vine and tree in their names. Great idea on the incantation!
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I do hope that there's a good alternative to Etherian Lifetree, now that we know what it does. Casting it seems like a chore. You've got to cast a tree conjuration for treebond, and it'll probably help your creatures some, but it's also going to buff your opponent's Vamp or Hydra or Troll or Gorgon or whatever. It's great against Necromancer, and Earth Mage, but it's very much not an aggressive card and breaking the symmetry seems more a matter of chance than intent.
Well Togorah the Forest Sentinal is a tree and I'm sure they are going to errata Moktari the Great Tree of Life to be a tree, so there are three options right there. Hopefully there will be at least one more, but we'll see.
Edit: ugh, it needs to be a tree conjuration so Togorah doesn't work. Lame.
Togorah, doesn't work as a Treebond unfortunately since it is a creature and not a conjuration. If it did, wow! That would be insanely powerful.
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I do hope that there's a good alternative to Etherian Lifetree, now that we know what it does. Casting it seems like a chore. You've got to cast a tree conjuration for treebond, and it'll probably help your creatures some, but it's also going to buff your opponent's Vamp or Hydra or Troll or Gorgon or whatever. It's great against Necromancer, and Earth Mage, but it's very much not an aggressive card and breaking the symmetry seems more a matter of chance than intent.
Well Togorah the Forest Sentinal is a tree and I'm sure they are going to errata Moktari the Great Tree of Life to be a tree, so there are three options right there. Hopefully there will be at least one more, but we'll see.
Edit: ugh, it needs to be a tree conjuration so Togorah doesn't work. Lame.
Togorah, doesn't work as a Treebond unfortunately since it is a creature and not a conjuration. If it did, wow! That would be insanely powerful.
Yeah, I had editied my post already because I caught that. Knew it was too good to be true ;)
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Tanglevine and Mohktari are getting errata... What about Wall of Thorns? Seems like a natural fit.
As an aside I hope she has an incantation that allows her to place additional vine markers. Something like Verdant Growth - place 3 vine markers, one after the other.
The rules do explicitly allow for vines to target zone borders, so I'd say there's a good chance.
Hypothetical Verdant Growth would be pretty great, but then so would a War incantation that made creatures Veterans. Come to think of it, I want a War incantation that makes creatures Veterans!
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A lot to digest with this mage, not sure how I feel about her just yet. She seems cool, but there are so many components to her that it's hard to see how good she will be (plus we haven't seen all of her toys yet). It looks like they are going to have to issue errata on a few cards though to work with her, someone already mentioned Tanglevine plus there is the Great Tree of Life which is not listed as a tree... Issuing those kinds of errata's are kind of messy and not good IMO because you don't want people to have to always be referring to a FAQ in order to play the game, but it would be kind of lame to NOT errata them too.
Not all of the spells that come in this set are new, so I'm wondering if they'll be including the updated versions of tanglevine et al.
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Has devour been explained yet?
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No, Devour has not been spoiled yet. I can see that's really eating at everyone.
*Crickets*
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Didn't it say that Devour permanently removes the 'corporeal' creature so that they don't go to a discard pile (and thus can't be resurrected or raised from dead/zombiefied)?
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No, Devour has not been spoiled yet. I can see that's really eating at everyone.
*Crickets*
I lawled. ;D
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A lot to digest with this mage, not sure how I feel about her just yet. She seems cool, but there are so many components to her that it's hard to see how good she will be (plus we haven't seen all of her toys yet). It looks like they are going to have to issue errata on a few cards though to work with her, someone already mentioned Tanglevine plus there is the Great Tree of Life which is not listed as a tree... Issuing those kinds of errata's are kind of messy and not good IMO because you don't want people to have to always be referring to a FAQ in order to play the game, but it would be kind of lame to NOT errata them too.
Not all of the spells that come in this set are new, so I'm wondering if they'll be including the updated versions of tanglevine et al.
Good point, maybe that's the case. I guess we'll see :)