Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Player Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: mitkosim on September 14, 2012, 01:55:14 PM
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Hey,
I've had this on my mind for a while now so I thought I'd put it on here so people can comment and maybe even to get some official feedback from the designers. Basically my concern is the following: I understand why designers make starters the way they do in terms of card distribution - this is a gateway product that is meant to be self-sufficient and offer a reasonably full game experience at a good price. Once the line moves into expansions, however, dedicated fans would want a good way to obtain a full set of the possible cards as they are released. So my question and hope is that expansions would come out with at least the auxiliary option of getting a full set of cards in some way other than buying said expansion x3 for example. I'm not saying that every product should offer this but rather that for every expansion that comes out it would be really great if we could have a Spell Tome of sorts that includes the missing spells for a complete set. I am saying "of sorts" because the CST is far from that mark. I was genuinely surprised when I saw that it included 1's of most cards and 2's of several. I opted for two complete core sets but I don't see myself doing that for every expansion.
I hope this sparks some discussion and maybe the people who can actually make these decisions can weigh in as well! I am still waiting on my two core sets to arrive and I can't wait to play. I am incredibly excited about this game, which is why I am raising my concern now - I really want to keep liking it ever more and supporting the team behind it with my continued business!
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Thank you so much for your interest and comments.
Currently, we are working on our first two-mage expansion, the Forcemaster and the Warlord. This expansion will include more copies of some of the cards in the Core Set, as well as, new spells tailored to these two mages.
As we add more Mages to the mix, we plan to be offering booster packs of spells, non-random of course, according to the different schools of magic, i.e. Arcane, Dark, Fire, Holy, etc. These booster packs will provide players with multiple copies of spells from each corresponding school of Magic. When you have a Beastmaster, Druid, and Huntress, you may want to pick up that booster pack of Nature spells!
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I am kinda sad there's only one fireshaper ring and one lightning ring. If one gets destroyed you don't got a second to equip.
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part of the problem there is that there are some cards that you want more of that arnt likely to be in these booster packs.
for example. temple of light (i think thats right, the temple that shoots the beam out) for the holy mage only. its unique so they most likely wont be in the seperate packs, but i would probibly run 4 if i was building a deck around them (simply because my opponent WILL want to destroy it.
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Thanks for chiming in! Klaxas hits on my main point exactly! I understand that there are probably utility spells that a lot of decks would use but there are some unique spells, or expensive spells, or whatever that are currently left out of the additional expansions. I would be perfectly fine with this if say the Nature booster contains all the nature cards to date in quantities that when combined with the main expansions and core set go up to 4 of's (6 of's for lvl 1 spells). I would just like to be able to decide for myself which spells to include a full set of and not be ruled by the distribution of the expansions.
Once again, thanks for taking the time to participate in this thread (special thanks to Mr. Connor for the swift official response!)
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Great thoughts - thanks for letting us know how you feel! It is our desire to provide players with all the copies they need.
We have had to make some tough choices, because if we provide plenty of each card, then the variety of cards goes down. For example, in the base set, we provided everyone with a pretty good mix of cards, and out of 322 spells, 174 are unique. If we instead included lots of copies of everything, players would have ended up with half as many different spells, or even a third.
We created the Core Spell Tome to immediately help players to get a few more of the most important spells. In the future, these "Spell Tomes" will have some NEW spells in them, but also provide additional copies of past spells.
We want your opinion please! Would you prefer these Spell Tomes to be keyed to specific Mages and schools of Magic? In this manner, if you like playing the Priestess, you could get extra copies of all of her Holy Spells, plus a few new ones.
Or would you prefer them to be keyed to a THEME. For example the Creature Rush Pack has extra copies of all of the creatures for all of the Mages?
Also, these Spell Tomes should not be confused with a Mage Expansion Set. For example, our first Mage expansion set, The Forcemaster vs. the Warlord, will come with 220 spells, the majority of them new, and all related to the new Mages. The only older duplicate spells in these sets will be a few Dispels, Minor Heals, etc. which each of them will need to help round out their spellbook.
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We posted almost the exact same thing at the same time. My response to another thread. (http://magewars.com/jsite/forum/spellbook-design-and-construction/134-list-of-common-spells-needed?limit=6&start=24#1172)
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for my two cents, I would prefer the spell tomes to be keyed to specific Mages and schools of magic. but, then again, I wouldn't mind the occasional theme pack.
another thought is to put out packs of two fully fleshed out and evenly balanced spellbooks for people new to deck building or who don't necessarily like deck building but are interested in this game. this might be too close to what MtG does with it's pre-constructed decks, but I think it is a good strategy for getting new players to try the game.
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i think my preference for spell tomes would be mage and school. simply because you dont just do creature rush, you do a wizard creature rush. or a warlock creature rush, etc. if im doing a new warlock book i want to pick up a warlock pack and a fire pack and reasonably expect to have everything i need. maybe add an equipment pack? the occational theme pack would be fine as well, creatures, equipment, attack spells. but i would concentrate on the mage/school ones first.
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I think once each of the schools has a mage out, school tomes would be better. As of now we have not even seen the base schools yet.
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I agree that school packs are probably a better idea than theme ones (aside from equipment, which is its own thing :P). And again, I fully understand why the base set and probably mage expansions are going to include a balanced mix of spells as opposed to complete sets and agree with it. Just, please, have some products that hardcore deckbuilding fans can obtain to accommodate their cravings ;)
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I'm also for school packs. After all schools had their full packs some theme-packs are welcome, but only after the school packs.
The pre-built deck are also a good idea!
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All of the ideas put forth sound viable and interesting. I think there are a lot of ways to package the cards that I would personally be willing to purchase.
It seems to me that the easiest way to allow completist (of which I'm one) to fill out their collections would be to also sell singles in your online store.
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or rather single card if its epic, or 4 or 6 depending on level. these of course would be an expencive way to get cards, but if you just needed one or two cards it might be worth it rather than get the sets.
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That is what I was thinking. It should be more expensive per card than buying sets since it is not meant to replace buying sets but supplement buying them and make it easy to get complete playsets of cards.
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One reason FFG changed their LCG format to include maximum copies of each new card released was because they were losing players who got frustrated with buying multiple sets only to have max copies of one card and 3 times the max on other cards from that same set.
I realize that FFG has enough money and production costs behind them that they can do a different release model. I personally enjoyed when they moved to the new format. I would rather see less cards per set but the ability to max out in every set purchased. I have not spent any less money on LCG's since the change. I was even ok with the copies of cards that weren't useful to the types of decks I built.
I would strongly suggest moving towards this kind of model with future releases!
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That could work with certain types of sets but I don't think it would work as well with the Mage sets because not all of the cards will be new. I wouldn't want to get 4 dispels or other universally useful spells every time a new ready to play from the box set is released. You would end up with a bunch of extra copies you don't need.
Don't get me wrong I like the concept, I'm just not certain it would translate to the way sets will be assembled for this game. Of course the game is still Fairly new and I could be proven wrong.
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My assumption was that, if it were packaged this way, people would generally buy most sets so they would not need to reprint dispel or nullify.
Do the box sets need to be ready to play? Magic has some but their general release sets are not ready to play and they seem to do ok. I know I personally would purchase the Warlord set if it came with all his new weapons and minions and I had to add in my own common spells from the base set.
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i believe they want each set to be ready to play.
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While, in idea, that sounds cool, I don't need another mage that comes with 6 more copies of Block. I bought the starter set and the spell tome and already have 7 copies, more then I can use in a deck. If the game goes the way of paying for cards you don't need then it might as well go with a CCG format as a lot of players like myself just won't pay time and time again for cards that are useless copies.
In order to get max copies of a card right now you need 4 sets of the core set IIRC. That's 240 bucks. Not only that but then you end up with 20 copies of Block. What do you do with the other 14? Make them coasters?
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they want each set to be self contained. i expect some people will play, participate in events and such and not own a core set. if you just buy the forcemaster.warlord set, you have a ready to play forcemaster. add into it a spell tome of the type of spells you want and boom, you have the tourniment ready spellbook you wanted.
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That's one way to go. They will probably not get much more money from me if they continue in that vein. In deck building games, if you do not have access to all fo the cards available you are at a disadvantage as the meta changes. I don't need 14 copies of a card I can't play. Therefore I will probably play the core set and spell tome and never buy another Mage Wars product again.
The resounding stance by the LCG players of FFG's products has shown that the market also swings the way my personal feelings do. They evolved their marketing strategy to fit what made sense to players in order to make money. My fear would be that Mage Wars wouldn't and thus become a game that ends up not making it.
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All of this brings me back to selling singles as a way of getting the cards you need without having to buy a set for a few singleton copies you are missing.
They could also sell the promos so that people that can't make events have a chance to get them too.
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What about in the online store having a section that allows us gamers to select X number of cards to construct our own Mage Tome?? esspecially with the new Mages that are coming out, so say the Forcemaster box have all of the new Forcemaster cards in that box, then the dude purchasing the Forcemaster box can choose another 20 or 30 points of cards from previous sets??
That way people can choose not to get duplicates of cards they already have.
Just a thought :)
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i think online singles might be a good way to go for getting the extra cards.
jestor, you cant rally compare this to a LCG. even though it is very similar. you can not buy a set, not have any of those cards and still have a very competitive build. if your playing an air mage chances are you dont need many fire spells, so dont buy the fire spell pack of cards.
i think the singles idea would be great. maybe i should look at selling singles online.
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What about in the online store having a section that allows us gamers to select X number of cards to construct our own Mage Tome?
This is a really good idea :ohmy:
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What about in the online store having a section that allows us gamers to select X number of cards to construct our own Mage Tome?
This is a really good idea :ohmy:
YIPPY ^^....enjoy your karma XD
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If each consumer were allowed to build their own spell tome, that would be INCREDIBLY costly. That makes much more work on the publishers part, and possibly the printers. I don't think it would be cost effective, as they'd have to charge you like $30 for 50 cards or something to make up for the production values.
Now if you were talking about the online store having a singles section, then yes that would be cool.
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Singles in the online store... Wonderful idea!
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How about releasing a "mega tome" that contains all the rest of the cards needed to get 4-6 of each spell when combined with the base set? This should not replace the "core spell tome" but would be an alternate choice for those who want the "complete" set.
I know there were "tough choices" involved, but my personal preference would have been to have the core set come with 4 pre-made wizard starter decks (each in a little box or plastic) and a few less extra cards. I realize it is a two player game, but I want to try out all the wizards without having to shuffle cards around.
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Well I would just like to say that I am really glad that people shared their views on this thread. Whether because of it or not, I cannot say but the MW team has put up a survey on their facebook page about how you would like to address obtaining additional cards. So head over there and make your opinion count! :)
Here's the link to the page:
https://www.facebook.com/MageWars
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Well I would just like to say that I am really glad that people shared their views on this thread. Whether because of it or not, I cannot say but the MW team has put up a survey on their facebook page about how you would like to address obtaining additional cards. So head over there and make your opinion count! :)
Here's the link to the page:
https://www.facebook.com/MageWars
I am going to copy pasta (for those who do not know its a web thing) this in the general thread as a sticky for a while till the pole closes.
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mmmm, pasta! must be lunch time :)
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Yes it is but I got Chinese.
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then why didnt you copy chinese?
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: :side: even I would not understand it then. :lol:
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regardless of the format of future expansions; whether themed around a particular Mage or school centric, are there any discussions among the team about the actual card count within the expansions? Meaning a standard scheme of number of copies for a given type of card.
For example: 1 copy of any epic spell, 2 copies of every spell above level one, and 3 copies of all level one spells.
this type of scheme would allow for more dependable expansions (along the lines of the LCG's) and if people have the completionist bug they can easily fulfill it with 2 sets.
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I can't overstate how important it is to me and my playgroup that all expansions include 4 of each card. This is so important to most gamers that fantasy flight actually went back and re-released most of their older "a game of thrones" boosters in a 3x format. Please, please don't put us in the position of having to buy multiples of the same product to play the deck we want. The fact is most players simply won't. They'll either play a different game or just make proxies of the missing cards. The only players who will buy multiples are those few who plan on playing in "official tournaments" if and when those come into being.
I understand why the core set was released the way it was. I'm really hoping that between the core, first, and second core spell tomes we will have 4 copies of each core spell.
Regarding how expansions are packaged thematically: this is so much less important than card distribution that I almost don't want to comment on it. Almost :) I'd suggest thematic expansions that provide a balanced selection of cards for all schools of magic. This will help prevent various mages from dominating simply b/c they have more spells available - as would be the case for individual mage or school of magic expansions. Also, it will help you business model as it will encourage players to buy each product. The end result is selling more (good for you!) and players being happy that they don't have to buy multiples of the same product (b/c they will be released in 4x distribution, right?)
(one other option would be to do a fixed 2x distribution. This might be a valid compromise that would still allow players to easily have a complete set of spells)
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Hey guys,
I just wanted to give you a quick update. We are always listening to your feedback, and trying to incorporate it as best we can into our future designs. We're proud today to announce the second core spell tome, with a focus on some of the higher level spells and legendary cards. Between Core Spell Tome 1 and Core Spell Tome 2, we have every spell in the game available. We're hoping this kind of open relationship between the players and designers means that we can make better decisions in the future about which cards to include and how to distribute them, but for now, I just wanted to let you know. We're listening!
http://magewars.com/jsite/jnews/lists/latest-news/2012-december/item/90-announcing-the-core-spell-tome-2
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When i play a game I like to play it to the fullest. As far as Mage Wars go I love the game and as soon as I got it I wanted to play the 4 mages, but there was simply not enough cards to max each mages to my liking. Many solutions are being talked about, but the way I see it, the Core set should have all the copies that the rules permits, 6 of each level one and 4 of each of the higher level. I'd rather pay more for a complete game from the start and not having to wait and buy additionals components. To play it the way I like, I had to buy 2 Core Sets and 2 Spell Tomes 1. I wish the expansion with the Forcemaster comes with the complete set of cards that the rules permits and no new cards for the older mages, instead they could make a special box set with whatever new cards they want to introduce. It would be both simplier and cheaper for everybody, eliminate the frustation of not being able to builds your spellbooks to their full capacity, and ensure customer fidelity, cause I won't be buying 2 base sets and 2 Spell tomes every expansion.
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Sorry for resurrecting this thread but I thought I'd post here instead of creating a whole new one.
All I wanted to say is kudos to AW! The card distribution in the Forcemaster/Warlord expansion is pretty great! There are plenty of new spells with quite a few copies of each. Not all of them are max count, but I agree with the choices made (and second expansion solves any issues, unlike with the Core Set) and will continue to support the game :) I was really holding my breath about how things would work out for expansions but I am very glad to see them as they are. Keep up this model for any future new card expansions and I think threads like this one will be a thing of the past!