Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => World and Lore => Topic started by: Sailor Vulcan on July 28, 2015, 07:02:19 AM
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Because if it did, then that means that without the plane of voltari, Etheria would be entirely unmagical. That means that underneath all the magic they must have some sort of normal physics that everything operates on. This makes it difficult to explain the existence of all of the gods and all of their many portfolios, as well as the other planes of existence overlapping Etheria. Because if Etheria ran on normal physics or some variant of it, then that means that most or all of the natural phenomenon and human activity that happens should be able to arise naturally, whether or not there were gods or other planes of existence. And they're not even all human per say. Amongst the sapient beings we've been introduced to so far are elves and orcs and dragons and demons. How would a wizard explain their existence? Just that "the realm of voltari did it" or "someone cast a spell to make them like that"?
So now I'm wondering: does all magic really come from the plane of voltari? Based on the existence and powers of the gods, and the existence of the other planes of existence, including the elemental planes (which seem to work on Aristotellian physics what with the four classical elements and all, which might make sense for magic but not at all for a nonmagical physical system), it seems more likely that magic is innately a part of their world.
I'm rather curious about this, and I need to know for a story I'm trying to write.
Thanks!
(Also, if there is readily available hard-evidence that Etheria has gods, and a large number of the Wizards of Sortilege, who are supposed to be rationally-minded magical researchers, STILL turn out to be atheists, I will be calling bs on those Straw Vulcans.)
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In the Mage Wars universe, magic power derives from the realm of Voltari.
Voltari exists around other realms (planes of existence). Imagine the universe as a magic sponge. That's Voltari. The holes in the sponge are where physical realms exist. (like Etheria).
Magic in Etheria taps into the sponge of Voltari -- it draws power in, and distills it into what the Schools of Magic call "mana". In layman's terms, mana is "diluted Voltari" -- its safe enough to be channeled, stored, and reshaped into spells or items.
It is possible to draw pure Voltari essence -- "V'Tar", but it is wildly dangerous in its pure form. Ancient artifacts, like the V'Tar Orbs or the V'Torrak tap this power. Long before the San Ahreal Empires (which later became the Pellian Empire, which later splintered into the nations of Etheria of today), the Drakkons (dragons) were adept at crafting items that were powered from V'Tar magic. These artifacts are among the most sought out, most highly treasured items that Mages and scholars seek. (Examples of these types of artifacts: Sectarus, the Horn of Gothos, and Mordok's Obelisk -- all were crafted by archmages with the power of pure V'Tar).
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I have much more respect for Horn of Ghotos now :) Thank you!
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In the Mage Wars universe, magic power derives from the realm of Voltari.
Voltari exists around other realms (planes of existence). Imagine the universe as a magic sponge. That's Voltari. The holes in the sponge are where physical realms exist. (like Etheria).
Magic in Etheria taps into the sponge of Voltari -- it draws power in, and distills it into what the Schools of Magic call "mana". In layman's terms, mana is "diluted Voltari" -- its safe enough to be channeled, stored, and reshaped into spells or items.
It is possible to draw pure Voltari essence -- "V'Tar", but it is wildly dangerous in its pure form. Ancient artifacts, like the V'Tar Orbs or the V'Torrak tap this power. Long before the San Ahreal Empires (which later became the Pellian Empire, which later splintered into the nations of Etheria of today), the Drakkons (dragons) were adept at crafting items that were powered from V'Tar magic. These artifacts are among the most sought out, most highly treasured items that Mages and scholars seek. (Examples of these types of artifacts: Sectarus, the Horn of Gothos, and Mordok's Obelisk -- all were crafted by archmages with the power of pure V'Tar).
Awesome! This was exactly what I needed! I already kind of deduced that despite their great power and eons and eons of experience the gods have human level intelligence (otherwise their fights might have wiped out Etheria long ago), which would mean that they weren't always deities and they had ascended at some point, but I couldn't figure out how the gods had ascended and from what, and how Etheria could have existed without them. Especially since some of the gods are nature spirits who create life. But if the elemental lords are also sapient beings, then the nature deities technically wouldn't have created ALL life in Etheria, just a large portion of it. I suppose they would be guardians/managers/preservers/forces of nature, rather than any of them being life's sole creators in Etheria.
I suppose the new gods have their origins on Etheria, rather than any of the other planes? That would make a lot of sense I think, and it would explain how they managed to take followers away from the elemental lords. Maybe people are more willing to trust gods from their own plane than from somewhere else.
This was really helpful! Thanks!
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Wait, so if the Mage wars universe is like a magic sponge, how big is each hole? Is Etheria the only world in its plane of existence? Is it the only world in its hole with life on it?
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Wait, so if the Mage wars universe is like a magic sponge, how big is each hole? Is Etheria the only world in its plane of existence? Is it the only world in its hole with life on it?
A great question, and one that is a hot topic among academics like Magus Festendenti, Professor of Planar Theory, at Sistarra.
The prevailing view is this: Each "hole" n the sponge represents a realm of existence. Most holes never touch, save through their shared connection with Voltari. However, some holes may have tiny tunnels to other holes, providing an access point for one realm to reach another realm. Many scholars believe this to be the case with Etheria and Infernia, two "holes" that have tiny, very limited access to each other.
One other note: each hole contains realms of varying sizes. For example, the realm of Etheria contains Etheria, its cavernous Underrealm, its two moons (Celestia and Ves), and all the stars and celestial bodies of the night sky. Another hole may be considerably smaller, may not have a celestial exosphere, or may have multiple celestial exospheres, wrapped like skin on an onion, may have its own forms or life, etc.
Isn't planar theory fun?
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Yes. Very fun!
So are there any realms that don't have ANY access to the realm of voltari? Maybe because the voltari around the realm is very stiff and dense and is hard to move? Kind of like what happens when a sponge doesn't have enough water to keep it entirely inflated? And if that happened, could a hole be "drilled" through the sponge, so to speak, creating a path from Etheria to such a realm, and maybe displacing some of the voltari around that realm, which would introduce magic to it?
Also, how much jurisdiction do the Gods of Etheria have in other realms? Will we ever be introduced to alien gods, preferably ones that are genuinely psychologically alien? I've read some stories about genuinely alien aliens (fictional ones of course), and some of them are quite interesting. My favorite novel, "Three Worlds Collide" by Eliezer Yudkowsky has this. (great read, highly recommend it, especially if it gives any ideas for new mages and locations in the mage wars universe, can be found here for free in PDF form: http://robinhanson.typepad.com/files/three-worlds-collide.pdf)
Also there was a short story written by the same author about an intelligent species that reproduces by full body fission. When they are old enough, one person would split into two people. (I think they make two copies of everything in the body during the process, so both individuals are identical immediately after the split, but of course they don't stay identical forever.) I would be really REALLY interested to see what their magic would be like, if they had any, as well as what their gods would be like, if they had any.
I can easily imagine the Baby-Eaters having a semi-benevolent lovecraftian deity and having a higher prevalence of dark magic users. Likewise for the Super-Happy people, except with holy and nature being most prevalent instead of dark, and a whole pantheon of nauseatingly bright and happy deities. Think sapient nyan cats (that don't look anything like nyan cats) and what their lovecraftian deities would be like.
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So are there any realms that don't have ANY access to the realm of voltari? Maybe because the voltari around the realm is very stiff and dense and is hard to move? Kind of like what happens when a sponge doesn't have enough water to keep it entirely inflated? And if that happened, could a hole be "drilled" through the sponge, so to speak, creating a path from Etheria to such a realm, and maybe displacing some of the voltari around that realm, which would introduce magic to it?
It's just not known how many other realms there are, but top scholars are pretty sure that that each realm can have dramatically different laws that govern it. They know, for example, that the realm of Infernia (where Adramelech and the other demon lords hold sway) is a much different place from Etheria, that the very air is unbreathable to humans, and that fire behaves according to different laws. (For example, you have to have air to keep fire burning. But since there is no true air in Infernia, yet the realm is eternally on fire of one form or another, something is going on.)
There's certainly every indication that given enough raw V'Tar power, shaped and channeled through the right spell or artifact, that one realm could "drill into" another realm, at least temporarily or in a limited capacity. The [mwcard=MW1J06]Gate to Hell[/mwcard] that was opened at the start of the Infernal Interregnum is an example of that. It could happen in other realms too.
Not every realm has the same level of magic, but all realms (at least all that scholars currently know of) are encompassed by Voltari. It's just that within their realm, different laws of magic and reality hold sway.
Also, how much jurisdiction do the Gods of Etheria have in other realms? Will we ever be introduced to alien gods, preferably ones that are genuinely psychologically alien?
Probably not a lot, but there might be exceptions. Not all gods originally came from the Etherian realm however. "The Nameless One" venerated by disciples of the Mind School was not part of the "new gods" that wrested power from the Elemental Lords. The Nameless One most likely hails from another realm, but his mind is so powerful he is able to reach out and communicate with those who also have telepathic powers, such as Mind Mages.
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I don't understand where the gods come from.
You say the nameless one comes from another realm, but the others?
are they born on etheria? when? from whom?
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I don't understand where the gods come from.
You say the nameless one comes from another realm, but the others?
are they born on etheria? when? from whom?
Except for "The Nameless One", the rest of the Etherian gods come from the Etherian realm.
Other than specific mythologies (which each god's disciples/priests/adherents have), no scholar really knows the true origins of the gods. You'll just have to accept that they came into being at some point. 8)
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I don't understand where the gods come from.
You say the nameless one comes from another realm, but the others?
are they born on etheria? when? from whom?
Except for "The Nameless One", the rest of the Etherian gods come from the Etherian realm.
Other than specific mythologies (which each god's disciples/priests/adherents have), no scholar really knows the true origins of the gods. You'll just have to accept that they came into being at some point. 8)
;D
the next question would be: did the dragons and the gods live at same time in etheria? what relation did they have?
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its two moons (Celestia and Ves),
Celestia (where the angels are)
Are these the same place? Or has the moon just been named after the realm where the angels reside, or what?
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Let me guess: Celestia is the elemental plane of air. Right? Just like Infernia is the elemental plane of fire?
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its two moons (Celestia and Ves),
Celestia (where the angels are)
Are these the same place? Or has the moon just been named after the realm where the angels reside, or what?
They are indeed the same place! Celestia is the home of the angels, and is one of Etheria's two moons.
Infernia is a different realm altogether, Celestia is within the same realm as Etheria, though for all practical purposes for the inhabitants of the nations, it might as well be another realm. Celestia and Ves (and a little about the angels there) is the topic for this week's Legends and Lore, so hopefully this response will just serve as a teaser!
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Let me guess: Celestia is the elemental plane of air. Right? Just like Infernia is the elemental plane of fire?
Infernia is not the Elemental Plane of Fire -- it's its own Realm. Just so happens there's a good deal of fire there too. :)
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Let me guess: Celestia is the elemental plane of air. Right? Just like Infernia is the elemental plane of fire?
Infernia is not the Elemental Plane of Fire -- it's its own Realm. Just so happens there's a good deal of fire there too. :)
Really? I could have sworn that I read somewhere on these forums from an official source that infernia was the elemental plane of fire. I don't remember where I heard it now...
Also, planes are subsets of realms?
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Also, planes are subsets of realms?
This is really just a question of terminology.
Some fantasy settings call other places of existence "planes" (like the Plane of Shadow, the Ethereal Plane, the Prime Material Plane, the Astral Plane, etc.). In the Mage Wars universe, we tend to call them "Realms". I won't say that we've never said "plane" (because we probably have somewhere, sometime), but the idea is that Etheria is a Realm (think prime material plane), and Infernia is a Realm that has a slight connection to it. Volatari is another Realm (think ethereal or astral plane), that exists all around the other Realms.
Does that make more sense?
Also, just to be totally clear, Infernia is not the Elemental Plane of Fire. Adramelech is the Lord of Fire, and there is fire there -- actually a lot of fire there -- it's a prime feature of the terrain -- in fact, it's a lot like hell -- but it's not the Elemental Plane of Fire.
You could call it a fiery Realm though.
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the next question would be: did the dragons and the gods live at same time in etheria? what relation did they have?
i'm affraid the scholars prefered to ignore my blasphemous question about the relation gods-dragons on etheria...
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the next question would be: did the dragons and the gods live at same time in etheria? what relation did they have?
i'm affraid the scholars prefered to ignore my blasphemous question about the relation gods-dragons on etheria...
I doubt it. They're wizards, they don't care if their questions are considered blasphemy.
If they don't answer every question, maybe it's something in the story that they don't want to spoil just yet.
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the next question would be: did the dragons and the gods live at same time in etheria? what relation did they have?
i'm affraid the scholars prefered to ignore my blasphemous question about the relation gods-dragons on etheria...
Those scholars are real jerks. ;) Loremasters on the other hand…
In all seriousness, I'd like to hold off on answering this question for just a little bit, because I am planning a Legends & Lore post about dragons and the Age of Catastrophe, but before I get there, I want to put together a short history of the Ages of Etheria so the timing all makes sense. Bear with me a little while, and your questions will be addressed :)
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looking forward!
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I don't understand where the gods come from.
You say the nameless one comes from another realm, but the others?
are they born on etheria? when? from whom?
Except for "The Nameless One", the rest of the Etherian gods come from the Etherian realm.
Other than specific mythologies (which each god's disciples/priests/adherents have), no scholar really knows the true origins of the gods. You'll just have to accept that they came into being at some point. 8)
I'd like to revisit my answer, to make it a little more nuanced, because as I was going back through the documents about the History of Etheria (http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=15981.0), I became a little concerned that I may have misled you with this answer.
The Elemental Lords, the original creators of the earth, sky, sea and air of Etheria (as well as the races who live there) were there in the Void at the beginning of Creation in the Realm of Etheria. I saw Realm of Etheria, because remember that each Realm is like a carved out bubble surrounded by a latticework of Voltari. Before there was Etheria, there was still the Void that was there.
The stories of the New Gods, and of their origins are shrouded in the mists of antiquity. The Nameless One is for certain from another Realm, though the other Gods may have been in the Void before there was Etheria, but unknown to the Elemental Lords. Each God's followers have their own stories, myths, or legends about where that God came from, but none of those stories say that they came from another place altogether.
What they do say is that the New Gods were there during the early days of Etheria, when the races were newly created. It's reasonable to think they they may have come from another Realm, and totally relocated to Etheria, but I don't want to be definitive on that.
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that was clear from your History of etheria!