Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Spellbook Design and Construction => Topic started by: Charmyna on August 19, 2013, 04:33:49 AM
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This is for those I promised to reveal my spellbook after Gencon. To catch the interest of all others, the statistics of this build are quite impressive: From over 35 games played via Octgn I won all (you can watch some of them here: http://www.twitch.tv/charmyna). The majority of opponents were experienced players and they used many different builds. Therefore, the success of the wizzly grizard build is not flawed by a local meta. Btw, its not only me who had such a success with this build – I told it to a friend who straightway started a win streak of over ten games. Actually, the earth wizard on fourth position of Gencon used the wizzly Grizard build with some minor changes to adapt to Gencon meta.
The strength of this build are:
- The Battle Forge combined with cheap equipment (Arcane/Enchanters Ring; Leather Boots/Gloves) produces an early action advantage and allows to adapt very quickly to the opponents strategy (i.e. casting defensive equipment on the mage, items that focus on gaining mana advantage or casting Mage Wand for agressive purpose)
- IMO, the Grizzly is the best creature in the current status of the game (there are tougher ones and the Lord of Fire does more damage because of burn, but the Grizzly is much cheaper). The grizzly survives many hits, his quick attack does nice damage and his full attack is just awesome. Btw, the full attack forces your opponent to keep moving or pay for it otherwise. This reposition effect from the bear is just great! Especially if paired with a Gorgon Archer.
- The Wizards inherent versatility (big Spellbook, voltaric shield, zap) allows adapting to the opponents strategy really well – especially if combined with the Battle Forge.
- The Wizard Tower is just incredibly useful! Especially if paired with surging wave to slam, jet stream to push, hurl boulder to focus down a creature, geyser to remove burn tokens from the mage (!!!).
- Golems in conjunction with some teleport spells or better a teleport wand have quite an impact on the game! They are good against most builds, but they really shine against a Forcemaster because of their Psychic Immunity (Charm/Mind Control can be annoying against the Grizzly). Therefore, being earth wizard somehow makes up for the wizards most important weakness: Lack of strong arcane creatures – Hydra is really bad after being weakened or being the target of agony!
First, I will show the list of cards and the openings. Then I will explain some reasoning behind these cards.
Creatures
gremlin 1
gorgon 1
grizzly 1
golem 2
Incantations
purify 1
minor heal 2
teleport 3
force push 1
dispel 5
dissolve 2
Attack spells
hail of stones 1
hurl boulder 2
geyser 1
surging wave 1
jet stream 1
Enchantments
nullify 4
jinx 2
falcon precision 1
bear strength 1
force hold 1
regrowth 1
cheetah speed 1
rhino hide 2
transfusion 2
harmonize 1
agony 1
turn to stone 3
Conjurations
wall of thorns 1
hand of bimshalla 1
Wizards Tower 2
mana kristall 2
battle forge 1
Equipment
enchanters ring 1
arcane ring 1
elemental cloak 1
leather gloves 1
dragonscale Haube 2
Mage Wand 2
leather boots 1
regrowth belt 1
The openings:
The first round is always the same:
Mana Crystal
Battle Forge (preferably casted in the last QC phase to delay the time point at which the opponent notices the BF).
As I explained elsewhere (http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=12881.0) it is very important to balance between increasing channeling and building up agressive/defensive stuff. Therefore, I use different openings depending on the opponents actions in round 1.
If the opponent casts two mana crystals or uses other spells that tend towards gaining mana advantage (e.g. Enchanters/Arcane ring), this tells me that I have enough time to spend the 2nd round for channeling actions as well. Therefore I cast the following:
Round 2 (channeling opening):
Battle Forge casts Arcane Ring
During main action phase I cast harmonize on my mage without revealing it yet (this is beneficial since during the opponents main action phase he doesn’t know that I increased channeling).
During last QC phase I cast a mana crystal (it gets the reduced cost from the arcane ring).
After the reset phase of round 3, I reveal harmonize (it will have reduced cost from arcane ring, since it’s a new round. But, I cant use arcane ring in round 3 again!).
Round 3 (channeling opening):
Battle Forge casts Enchanters Ring
With Full Action my mage summons a grizzly
The QC is used for a hidden enchantment on me or the bear (what enchantment and which target depend on the opponents actions. Good enchantments are: Rhino hide/Regrowth as defensive options, Nullify, bear strength, Cheetah Speed as aggressive options – Nullify is agressive since it helps the bear to not get sleeped or stoned and to deliver its damage).
If the opponent used his actions in round 1 for aggressive stuff, I will use a defensive opening. As an example, the opponent could move twice toward me and spend only his QC for a mana crystal. This is dangerous since in round 2 he will be in range for two fireballs on my mage and he will have the mana to do it. Even if the opponent moves only one zone in round 1 but casts a hidden enchantment on himself (which could be a Chetaah Speed), he still might be able to throw two fireballs at my mage in round 2 or to push him through a wall of thorns. Therefore, I go for early armor since it is crucial in a damage race:
Round 2 (defensive opening):
Battle Forge casts: Leather Gloves
During QC Phase my mage casts: Leather Boots (let me emphasize how great Leather Boots/Gloves are - they are cheap and noone really wants to spend a dissolve+action to remove them)
Full Action: Gremlin
If the opponent really casts Fireballs on me in Round 2, I go the defensive route even further:
Round 3 (defensive defensive opening):
I use voltaric shield.
Battle Forge: Dragonscale Hauberk
QC: Elemental Cloak (this combo helps a lot against explode, since even after the equipments destruction my mage still has -2 flame on him against the explodes attack)
Full Action: Nullify
Alternatively, I use Nullify in the QC phase if I am afraid of the opponent casting explode before I can use my full action.
If the opponent does not cast fireballs on my mage in Round 2, I go the semi defensive route:
Round 3 (semi defensive opening):
Battle Forge: Enchanters Ring
Full Action: Grizzly
QC: Hidden Enchantment on mage or grizzly (same as mentioned above).
Now, let me explain why I decided to put in some cards:
Creatures
Grizzly:
Very tough and awesome damage if you compare to mana cost.
Gremlin:
He is cheap but still tough. The extra Action Marker can be crucial for tactical play (if you have at least as much Action Markers as your opponent one of your creatures can act after the opponent Mage moved - e.g. you can teleport a golem to his mage).
Gorgon Archer:
Good to slowly gain board control over time. The weak are great against all living targets. Usually I summone GA after the grizzly because otherwise its too easy for the opponent to focus down GA.
Golem:
Really tough creature. Its nonliving, so it cant be healed. But, nonliving sometimes has a benefit as well: Poison Immunity. Therefore, weak from Gorgon Archer, cripple from Basilik, Rot from Darkfenne Bat wont work. Most Important: The Golem is cheap to put into the spellbook and is great as a backup in case the grizzly dies. In addition, the Golem is great to protect the Gorgon Archer or to deliver really nice damage if paired with a teleport spell every other round (you need to play well with initiative and you need at least as much Action Markers as your opponent).
Downside of the golem: Many useful enchantments require a living target (e.g. bear strength, falcon precision). Fortunately, the wizard tower+surging wave somehow make up for the missing falcon precision.
Attack Spells
All of these spells but the zone attack are meant to be casted by the Wizard Tower, since it saves an action and the spell wont be discarded after casting.
Hail of stones:
This spell isn’t really necessary in this book, but it helps a lot against Swarm builds (currently not many play swarm, but I guess it will change).
Jet Stream:
Great to push a creature into your Bear/Golem or out of the zone of your Gorgon Archer. Also this attack has +2 against flying which really helps to make up for the lack of flyers in this build. Jet Stream is especially useful against the Forcemasters Spores!
Surging Wave:
Its unavoidable and has range 2! Its best to use against a creature with a defence since the slam (chance : 10/12) prevents that creature from using the defence (e.g. the Forcemasters deflect). But, be aware of defences that are independent of slam (Dancing Scimitar).
Weaknesses: If the target is umovable (e.g. a Mage with Eagleclaw Boots), you cant slam it but daze it instead. This spell cant target flying units!
Geyser:
Mostly used for removing burns. This can be a life saver – especially if your mage has finite life trait which prevents healing!
Hurl Boulder:
Great spell for damage purpose. There is no trait but aegis that lowers the dice amount (as compared to -2 flame against fireball). Its especially useful against flyers, since the slam removes flying trait.
In addition, Hurl boulder is very useful to finish off a creature during the first QC phase thereby preventing the damage the creature would have caused that round otherwise. Actually, this is the reason why there are two Hurl Boulder in this book. With only one Hurl Boulder I would be afraid of using it with the mage since it will be discarded thereafter and no big attack spell would be left for the Wizard Tower.
Incantations:
Dispel:
It might look strange to have five dispels in a spellbook. The reason is that a curse warlock is a great threat against this build since the curses damage gets through voltaric shield + armor and the finite life counters regen. Therefore, it is crucial to have enough dispel+purify to get rid of all ghoul rots and poisoned bloods (magebane and curse of agony is a minor threat since its less damage/round and can be healed easily via regen+Hand of Bimshalla).
Purify:
IMO almost every spellbook needs this at least once! Its really helpful to reduce weak/rot/cripple and it shines against a curse warlock since you can remove both, ghoul rot and poisoned blood (and maybe some rot), with spending only one action!
Teleport:
Maybe the best spell in the current game. Its really useful in combination with Golem or Gorgon Archer or to counter wall focused strategies. If the opponent drops a Deathlock a teleport on the grizzly can be crucial to shut it down quickly!
Minor Heal:
Many think its better to summon a new creature instead of healing one that is nearly dead. I guess in some situations that’s right, but for this build its expensive to put in a 2nd grizzly in case the first one dies. Anyway, if the grizzly has a couple of enchantments on him, its much cheaper to heal instead of summon a new one. Additionally combining Mage Wand with Minor Heal allows the mage and the Grizzly to survive being heavily focused for several rounds.
Enchantments:
Turn to Stone:
Really great enchantment to slow down builds that rely on big creatures (e.g. Lord of Fire, Angels, Grizzly).
Rhino Hide:
One of the best enchantments. Its so cheap and you can wait with revealing it until you get a benefit (its possible to reveal it after the roll dice step and before the apply damage step).
Regrowth:
Awesome spell if you need to build up defensive stuff quickly. If you have enchanters ring, you need to spend only 1 mana in the current round! The other 4 mana can be spend from the mana of the subsequent round since the upkeep phase happens after the channeling phase. This allows you to cast Dragonscale Hauberk (with the Battle Forge) + Elemental Cloak + Regrowth in one round even if you only have 13 mana!
Conjurations:
Do I have to say anything? Wizard tower and Hand of Bimshalla are just awesome. Wall of thorns is great in combination with Force Push. The Battle Forge is a key element of this build and two Mana Crystals are very useful if your opponent starts with a slow opening.
Equipment
Dragonscale Hauberk:
From all attack spells Fireball and Flameblast have the best Damage to Mana ratio. Therefore, IMO it is more important to reduce their damage potential compared to reducing the damage potential from other spells (e.g. Lightning Bolt). Its even more important since there is only one incantations that destroys an equipment while doing damage (explode) and thereby producing an action advantage. Since explode is fire damage, the combination of Dragonscale Hauberk and Elemental Cloak really helps to reduce the opponents damage output! All this are reasons why two Dragonscale Hauberks are included into this build.
Leather Gloves/Boots + Arcane/Enchanters Ring:
Very cheap but still useful equipment. They shine if casted by the Battle Forge since them being so cheap allows your mage to still cast two spells in that round and gaining an action advantage early on.
Regrowt belt:
Very useful since it can be casted by the Forge thereby saving you an action in mid to late game. This item somehow counters Ghoul Rot/Magebane without the need of your mages action! Often its better to cast a Regrowth Belt compared to a heal, since with all the armor this mage survives long enough to make good use of regenerate.
If you like this build, pls give it a try and let me know how it worked out for you!
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There are parts of this that look similar to my Earth Wizard, but other parts are different. I don't currently have a Battleforge package in my Earth Wizard build, but I'm seriously considering adding one. I've noticed that a Wizard with 4-5 armor and Voltaric Shield is incredibly tough. Cheap equipment and Battleforge seems like a good route to getting there.
My attack spells look pretty similar to yours, although I have an extra Hurl Boulder and an Arc Lightning instead of Geyser.
I don't currently run Steelclaw, but now that I see it in your build, I'm considering adding that as well. I'm trying to iron out exactly what set of creatures I want. I'm running Whirling Spirit right now, which complements the Slow creatures pretty well, but it's not as threatening as Steelclaw.
I was also looking at Bridge Troll. Bridge Troll is significantly worse against the Warlock, but Iron Golems and Whirling Spirit are pretty good in that matchup anyway. I'll need to put Rhino Hide on Bridge Troll in case my opponent tries to focus him down, but I think that's worth a try.
How often do you use 3 Turn to Stones in a single game? There are certain spells I tend to spam (Teleport and Tanglevine come to mind), but I've never tried using multiple Turn to Stones.
I have to agree that a curse Warlock can be an issue. I was testing a curse heavy Warlock against my Earth Wizard earlier, and dealing with Ghoul Rot and Magebane was a problem.
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There are parts of this that look similar to my Earth Wizard, but other parts are different. I don't currently have a Battleforge package in my Earth Wizard build, but I'm seriously considering adding one. I've noticed that a Wizard with 4-5 armor and Voltaric Shield is incredibly tough. Cheap equipment and Battleforge seems like a good route to getting there.
He really is so damn tough! I had a couple games in which my opponent got me to like 22 damage. But, after that i kept regenerating/healing more than he did damage while he got eaten by the Grizzly.
My attack spells look pretty similar to yours, although I have an extra Hurl Boulder and an Arc Lightning instead of Geyser.
Before last week I had an Arc Lightning instead of Geyser as well. Its just, in most situations surging Wave is more useful than Arc Lightning, so for me Arc Lightning is not worth its Spellbook cost. Btw, Geyser is just awesome against burns! You need to factor in how much damage burns do. Lets say 5 rounds after the current round, the damage of a burn is on average: 1+2/3+(2/3)^2+(2/3)^3+(2/3)^4+(2/3)^5=2.74! Therefore if you have 2 burns on you, a geyser is MUCH more efficient than a heal and you can use geyser while having Finite Life whereas you cant heal in that situation!
I don't currently run Steelclaw, but now that I see it in your build, I'm considering adding that as well. I'm trying to iron out exactly what set of creatures I want. I'm running Whirling Spirit right now, which complements the Slow creatures pretty well, but it's not as threatening as Steelclaw.
I thought of using Whirling Spirits as well, but their damage is too low compared to Grizzly and against ethereal attacks (e.g. Wizards zap) they are much more vulnurable than the grizzly. Btw, since Whirling Spirits are nonliving you cant cast Falcon Precision/Cheetah Speed/Bear Strength on them! Additionally, I wanted to be earth wizard for the golems and hurl boulder. Therefore, a Whirling Spirit would be too expensive.
I was also looking at Bridge Troll. Bridge Troll is significantly worse against the Warlock, but Iron Golems and Whirling Spirit are pretty good in that matchup anyway. I'll need to put Rhino Hide on Bridge Troll in case my opponent tries to focus him down, but I think that's worth a try.
I need to test the Troll more often, but I guess its much easier to focus him down compared to the grizzly. And as you said, he is worse against a Warlock, which already is one of the most threatening opponents for this build.
How often do you use 3 Turn to Stones in a single game? There are certain spells I tend to spam (Teleport and Tanglevine come to mind), but I've never tried using multiple Turn to Stones.
I used Tanglevine alot a while back, but atm i dont like it that much. Its destroyed too quickly with just one attack of the grizzly or you can teleport out of it to remove tangle and reposition the creature with just one action. Therefore, if you consider action costs turn to stone seems alot better to me and you can use it against flyers.
Multiple turn to stones work great, since the first two often are dispelled but many builds dont have enough dispels to take care of 3 turn to stones, force hold and agony. Even if they do, they have nothing left to dispel the grizzlies Bear Strength or my mages rhino hide/regrowth which will hurt them in late game. Btw, with this build its possible to get 14 channeling easily (in addition to the two rings). Therefore, upkeep +4 is just a minor problem.
I have to agree that a curse Warlock can be an issue. I was testing a curse heavy Warlock against my Earth Wizard earlier, and dealing with Ghoul Rot and Magebane was a problem.
Yeah curse Warlocks can be really annoying. Fortunately in my games the Battle Forge helped to gain action advantage and dispelling every Ghoul Rot/Poisoned blood allowed my mage to regen (regrowth+hand) at least as much as he suffered damage from Magebane and Molochs.
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Charmyna,
What are you DOING, my friend, giving away all your secrets?! ;)
Your post and Sdouglas2 reply are truly excellent examples of tactical advice on the web.
Since our last few games, I have found a bit of success with a similarly themed build, but with the Air Wizard. A Grizzly plus Nec Vamp combo, very aggressive with both out on turn 3 and 12 channelling built up. Have you now settled on the view that Golems and Gorgons outweigh Vamps?
Did you get to the view that the defensive creatures (Guardian Angel and Gargoyle) were too little a threat for their cost?
Great posts chaps.
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Having seen it in action I can attest that the Grizzly Wizard is in fact a VERY strong build. However, it tends to have more mana issues than other Wizards, which became an issue in my game against Nick's grizzly wizard. Also, with lots of points spent in out of school cards, you can run out of cards in the late game. Ideally, you want to win the game quickly with the bear. In longer games, a higher-channeling Wizard build or a curse-heavy Warlock build can fare very well against this one.
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Charmyna,
What are you DOING, my friend, giving away all your secrets?! ;)
Your post and Sdouglas2 reply are truly excellent examples of tactical advice on the web.
Since our last few games, I have found a bit of success with a similarly themed build, but with the Air Wizard. A Grizzly plus Nec Vamp combo, very aggressive with both out on turn 3 and 12 channelling built up. Have you now settled on the view that Golems and Gorgons outweigh Vamps?
Did you get to the view that the defensive creatures (Guardian Angel and Gargoyle) were too little a threat for their cost?
Great posts chaps.
I think Grizzly outweighs Vamp and Battle Forge+cheap equipment outweigh a 2nd big creature because of action advantage.
@Guardian Angel/Gargoyle:
In over 30 games I never felt the need to cast a defensive creature. Btw, its much easier to play around a defensive creature (teleport, force push, slam) than it is to play around equipment/defensive enchantments.
Having seen it in action I can attest that the Grizzly Wizard is in fact a VERY strong build. However, it tends to have more mana issues than other Wizards, which became an issue in my game against Nick's grizzly wizard. Also, with lots of points spent in out of school cards, you can run out of cards in the late game. Ideally, you want to win the game quickly with the bear. In longer games, a higher-channeling Wizard build or a curse-heavy Warlock build can fare very well against this one.
This is why I include only one grizzly in my build (Nick includes two afaik). Mana isnt really an issue since I have enough cheap equipments/enchantments to use my two actions and battle forge nearly every round. Anyway, in most games I have 13-14 channeling after round 2-4 in addition to the two rings. Thats more than enough. Only if the opponent rushes forward really quickly, I need my actions to cast defensive stuff. But, in this case the opponent has lower channeling than me anyway.
With my build I never had problems with late game. Btw, higher channeling Wizards usually have problems against the grizzlies+golems damage potential.
Curse-heavy Warlocks are a threat for this build, but 5 dispels, 2 mage wands and a purify really help against ghoul rot + poisoned blood, while the damage from Grizzly+Golem put the opponent under high pressure. Oh and a regrowth (belt or enchantment) + Hand of Bimshalla casted early on are especially good against a Curse-heavy Warlock since they somehow counter the damage you receive each round.
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I'm still on my 7 hour drive back and posting on my phone is miserable but just to add I play one bear. :) I think with Charmyna in my place he would have won it all with ease, which isn't intended to take away from my opponents he's just that good and maybe even more importantly experienced. Before Gencon I had 2 games with the Grizzley book which I felt really hurt my decision making process during the tournament.
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@Guardian Angel/Gargoyle:
In over 30 games I never felt the need to cast a defensive creature. Btw, its much easier to play around a defensive creature (teleport, force push, slam) than it is to play around equipment/defensive enchantments.
Very true.
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Soooo, earth wizzard is now overpowered? :D (just kiddin)
This article made some big "clicks" in my brain and push me forward :) thx for this article. And also, i have to prove that warlord is da best :)
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Barring some weird shit coming out of the woodwork or mana denial seeing more play and being OP I think Earth Wizard is hands down the best mage right now. I do have high hopes for control FM and Johktari BM though.
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Congrats on your build, man!
You need to factor in how much damage burns do. Lets say 5 rounds after the current round, the damage of a burn is on average: 1+2/3+(2/3)^2+(2/3)^3+(2/3)^4+(2/3)^5=2.74!
In fact, I did the maths and each burn token deals 3 damage on average. You get that result by adding the whole infinite series (2/3)^n.
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Congrats on your build, man!
You need to factor in how much damage burns do. Lets say 5 rounds after the current round, the damage of a burn is on average: 1+2/3+(2/3)^2+(2/3)^3+(2/3)^4+(2/3)^5=2.74!
In fact, I did the maths and each burn token deals 3 damage on average. You get that result by adding the whole infinite series (2/3)^n.
The problem is, the game does not last infinite rounds. Therefore, i count in 5 rounds after the current round.
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Tangle vine isn't good because it's destroyed too quickly. Tanglevine is good when you will have the initiative next turn and you want a tiny bit of tempo. It's worse in slower books that don't have a high damage thres, but with books that have anywhere from 12-21 dice a round thresholds, tanglevine becomes a lot better. Believe me, gaining initiative to jinx their tele to hit them with a meteorite with a hawkeye followed by a watchtowered sniper is ridiculous. Even if it's just double boulder jinxing them at the end of the previous round after vining them can be off the wall in hyper aggressive books like my Earth Wizard.
Which leads us to the problem with most of the Wizard builds seen at Gencon. They were all incredibly defensive without enough offense. It says something when the finals match goes to tiebreakers. Playing to the objective of the game is the only way to win. Playing to the tiebreaker is inefficient and does not give an accurate representation of the meta at all. I mean, the finals match didn't even see actual dice damage until the final quarter of the match!
What I like about this build more than any other of the Earth Wizard builds or wizard builds I've seen is that it has an actual clock, an actual damage threshold, and doesn't depend on the match going to time. Getting to watch Hanma play this deck was a great sight, and the only match he lost was the match where he... played too defensive!
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Hey Charmyna. Nice article about your deck. I guess we will see it getting played more often in the future ;) Why is there no seeking dispel anymore?
You said a similar build was 4th at GenCon, are Spell-Book-lists from GenCon posted somewhere?
PS: I like cutting stupid falcon ;P
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Congrats on your build, man!
You need to factor in how much damage burns do. Lets say 5 rounds after the current round, the damage of a burn is on average: 1+2/3+(2/3)^2+(2/3)^3+(2/3)^4+(2/3)^5=2.74!
In fact, I did the maths and each burn token deals 3 damage on average. You get that result by adding the whole infinite series (2/3)^n.
Don't count on it though! I had an opponent who escaped the first roll every time yesterday! Close to a half dozen burns! Played both the Warlock and the Priest against his books yesterday. Just couldn't believe it!
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Tangle vine isn't good because it's destroyed too quickly. Tanglevine is good when you will have the initiative next turn and you want a tiny bit of tempo. It's worse in slower books that don't have a high damage thres, but with books that have anywhere from 12-21 dice a round thresholds, tanglevine becomes a lot better. Believe me, gaining initiative to jinx their tele to hit them with a meteorite with a hawkeye followed by a watchtowered sniper is ridiculous. Even if it's just double boulder jinxing them at the end of the previous round after vining them can be off the wall in hyper aggressive books like my Earth Wizard.
Which leads us to the problem with most of the Wizard builds seen at Gencon. They were all incredibly defensive without enough offense. It says something when the finals match goes to tiebreakers. Playing to the objective of the game is the only way to win. Playing to the tiebreaker is inefficient and does not give an accurate representation of the meta at all. I mean, the finals match didn't even see actual dice damage until the final quarter of the match!
What I like about this build more than any other of the Earth Wizard builds or wizard builds I've seen is that it has an actual clock, an actual damage threshold, and doesn't depend on the match going to time. Getting to watch Hanma play this deck was a great sight, and the only match he lost was the match where he... played too defensive!
Tanglevine can be good in the right situation - especially if paired with a jinx. But thats means you spent two spells and quite some mana to make it worth!
To compare tanglevine with other crowd control spells (e.g. force hold or turn to stone) i prefer to keep it as simple as possible (i.e. without jinx which can be used in both situations anyway). So lets have a look into a simple example: You cast a tanglevine on a Grizzly who is in a zone with one of your crystals. The grizzly cant move, but it attacks and onehits your crystal. Next round, your Opponent has initiative and teleports the grizzly into the zone he needs him. In the end, you used an action and 5 mana to cast tanglevine whereas your opponent used an action and 3+ mana to free the bear. But, he has the benefit of repositioning the bear!
How does this look for force hold? You reveal force hold on the bear. He attacks and onehits your crystal. Next round you need to pay 3 upkeep and your opponent dispels Force Hold. In the end you paid 3 mana more than your opponent and both of you spent an action. But, he will not be able to reposition the bear (well unless he uses another action for that).
Another benefit of force hold/turn to stone is that it lasts for an infinite time if your opponent runs out of dispels and you got enough mana. I prefer cards that last quite some turns or which force the opponent to use his dispels at least. The idea behind this is to be spellbook point conservative.
To summon up: Tanglevine is quite a good spell, but its effect isnt worth putting it into this spellbook - especially not since its out of school and turn to stone costs only 1 spellpoint more.
Something else to consider: Some might think its better to have one tanglevine and a turn to stone instead of two turn to stone. I think its not, because the tanglevine has a different counter than turn to stone. Therefore, its better to focus on turn to stone since at some point your opponent will run out of dispels. If you instead combine tanglevine with turn to stone, he might run out of dispels but that doesnt matter, since you have only tanglevine left which he is able to counter with his remaining teleports.
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Tangle vine isn't good because it's destroyed too quickly. Tanglevine is good when you will have the initiative next turn and you want a tiny bit of tempo. It's worse in slower books that don't have a high damage thres, but with books that have anywhere from 12-21 dice a round thresholds, tanglevine becomes a lot better. Believe me, gaining initiative to jinx their tele to hit them with a meteorite with a hawkeye followed by a watchtowered sniper is ridiculous. Even if it's just double boulder jinxing them at the end of the previous round after vining them can be off the wall in hyper aggressive books like my Earth Wizard.
Which leads us to the problem with most of the Wizard builds seen at Gencon. They were all incredibly defensive without enough offense. It says something when the finals match goes to tiebreakers. Playing to the objective of the game is the only way to win. Playing to the tiebreaker is inefficient and does not give an accurate representation of the meta at all. I mean, the finals match didn't even see actual dice damage until the final quarter of the match!
What I like about this build more than any other of the Earth Wizard builds or wizard builds I've seen is that it has an actual clock, an actual damage threshold, and doesn't depend on the match going to time. Getting to watch Hanma play this deck was a great sight, and the only match he lost was the match where he... played too defensive!
I thought you were trying to find your inner control player. Are you going aggressive again already? :o
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In response to Charmyna: I agree, it's not good in your build, as I stated, as your build is slower, and less based on tempo aggression. In my particular build, it works. That's all I'm saying!
@Tacullu: I know, I know! I guess I mean to say that if you are going up against a meta of defensive, let's build until the cows come home meta, your best bet is to play as aggressively as possible, and I think a book that can't do that isn't complete. Especially when given 75 minutes to complete a game based on a rather poorly thought out tiebreaker!
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@The Dude In that case you're absolutely correct. Building a control book without enough offense is one of the easy traps to fall into. Especially if you're used to MtG. It is easy to think, I put x number of threats in my magic deck, but I only need x-2 in my MW spellbook because I can get them whenever I need them. That is not how it really plays out. So yeah, make sure you have enough offense.
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The time when tanglevine shines is when you think the enemy might have a nullify on the target, and you dont have 2 actions to spend on getting rid of that face Down enchantment.
when cast, Tanglevine is uncounterable. - except jinx.
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The time when tanglevine shines is when you think the enemy might have a nullify on the target, and you dont have 2 actions to spend on getting rid of that face Down enchantment.
when cast, Tanglevine is uncounterable. - except jinx.
That is a really good point!
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i did not play against this build. my initial reaction is that it seems like the spellbook cost is too high. out of school for 8 points is a lot. why not put in two iron golems instead and have 2 more points to spare or for one more point put in the third golem. plus they are cheaper to cast than the grizzly.
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i did not play against this build. my initial reaction is that it seems like the spellbook cost is too high. out of school for 8 points is a lot. why not put in two iron golems instead and have 2 more points to spare or for one more point put in the third golem. plus they are cheaper to cast than the grizzly.
The build already has two iron golems in it. What you are suggesting would give it five.
The grizzly has a few advantages. It is not slow, it can be buffed, and it can be healed. The grizzly can also be used more aggressively than the golems.
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missed that part. was just thinking of the spell on its own and think that 2 iron golems are better than one grizzly and 2 book points to spare. it was just a raw comparison.
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If it was an either/or case golems all the way. Since he already has that base covered the grizzly makes more sense.
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I play a similar build. It is a very good spellbook. The most problems I have are rush strategies: especially the warlock but also the Priest! The warlock because of its curses (finite life, ghoul rot) which provides direct damage. But the priest with battle forge is also a thread: he already has a light attack that can daze, + temple of light, the staff of asyra which can daze/stun en have 4 attack dice +2 vs non-living (iron golem!) with is a pain because in a game the priest was able to kill the grizly in 1 round before I could minor heal the grizly. When the grizly is gone it is hard to keep the mage under pressure. You can cast iron golem but with that staff it dies in 2 rounds (you cant heal iron golem). You can play well with initiative off course: when you have initiative next turn you can summon iron golem and attack for 6 dice but still it is gone next round. I will increase the dissolve in my deck for de-building the opponents attack/defense power. I am thinking to ad another thought creature but not sure on that. Anny thought/tips?
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Staff of Asyra does 6 dice against Golem+2 from bear strength + 1 from gauntlets = 9 dice which is about 5 damage against Arm 5. I can see how good rolls or supporting attacks would kill a Iron Golem in a couple of turns.
I don't see how he managed to kill your Bear in one turn, though. What did he do? 7 dice shouldn't kill a Grizzly.
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the priest had staff, gauntlets, bear strength, dawnbreaker ring + bim-shalla and a holy avenger knight of westlock. I already had taken 4 damage on grizly but thanks to a clever move I was 2 zones away of the bear (since minor heal is 0-1zone I couldn't cast it) since he had initiative. He attacked and did an ridiculous good roll and the bear was dead! From that point I lost being able to pressure the opponent. In the end I still managed to win the game :d but it was really thought!
Okay he rolled extremely good but yeah there I was without my big boss monster. I never expected that it died that turn before I could heal the bear but jeah bad luck I guess :p
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Yeesh, there's the problem right there. 9 dice against bear, 11 against Golem. Eww :-)
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Mjep, I know: it is a problem. It was a really thought game. That's why I am hoping for some tips/tricks/suggestions. You can always learn :d
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Well, you won, didn't you? Just do that again :-)
In all seriousness, the two options there are to:
1, either play a tactical positioning game with force push, jet stream, and teleport, mixed with things like caltrops, poison and gas cloud, and enfeeble.
or
2, play a spike damage strategy that suddenly and dramatically causes him to re-evaluate spending time on the front line. Combos like Golem Pit or Wall of Thorns work well.
Golem pit is as many Iron Golem as you can cast + Spike Pit and Teleport. The pit can be replaced with Enchantment Transfusion + Nullify + Force Hold if you prefer, and even if you use the pit you may want to cast Nullify or Jinx on your opponent to prevent him or her from teleport in away.
Wall of Thorns + Force Push can be a nasty surprise for an aggressive solo, but you may need to dissolve armor and Eagle Claw Boots first. It gets even meaner with a well positioned Wizard's Tower to cast Jet Stream to push the Mage back through the wall. This takes some practice to get the positioning right.
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Staff of Asyra is one of the biggest threats for the golems. Therefore, it is crucial to have enough dissolve/mage wands in this deck or enough damage output to make him flee from the front line.
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Yep I know. That's why I include 3 (maybe 4) dissolve and 2 mage wands. I think i have a solution for protecting the bear and doing an extremely amount of damage: i am going to include 1 reverse attack in my spellbook. When i am fighting a aggressive mage i simply guard with the bear and enchant bear strength and the reverse attack on my bear. Then the mage attacks my bear, reveal reverse attack (lets say the opponent had 8 attack dice) so that's 8 dice reversed with a possibility to burn/daze, then i counterstrike from the guard token so another 7dice and piercing +1(bear strength) that's 15 dice! + i protected the bear and i can use en full action attack for 9dice next turn. This will slow him down! If he keeps rushing the opponent will lose because of all the damage. Another possibility is to include eagle wings which is nice with both bear en gorgon archer.
Another thing is conjurations like battle forge, lair, barracks, ... they give an action advantage and i don't like that. So I am trying (next game) to take it quickly do that the opponent doesn't get to abuse it that much. I can take it out with a monster or wizards tower (okay it cost mana but hey you have to do something, right?)
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I very much like the book! I played against Hanma's variant and that game went on forever. ;D After a time, with no path to victory I did concede as we would have tacked on another hour before a proper resolution. Also, a quick aside on OCTGN. I have not used it, but I feel that some of tension in the bluffing element and on those critical die rolls could be lost when playing over the web. Does anyone who plays get that sense?
Onward!
In the future, against a build like the Grizard or a similar book I will prioritize the destruction of battle forge to end the free actions for all the cheap equipment. From there I solider forward with what attacks are available to threaten the wizard in such a way that each upkeep it is near mandated that the shields come on. In conjunction, I begin cursing and/or attempting to stun-lock with air attack spells. Successful stuns cripple any book build, but they especially diminish the potency of builds that maintain so many high cost creatures. If you opt to exclusively go the curse route, that will also hinder the ability to get larger creatures on the board in the event the opponent chooses to dispel (Wardstone's are also a fantastic addition for this tactic to make each nullify sting a bit more).
In early rounds you may perhaps take a few boulders on the chin while targeting the forge, however without means to make those large attack spells unavoidable (i.e. Sniper Shot, Seeking Dispel), well placed blocks (or better reverse attack) may sway tempo in your favor. In my opinion you simply need to play fast (aggressive) to win, if the game drags on into rounds 4 or 5 without you presenting the threat of serious damage it becomes an uphill battle. My close buddy Andy aka The Dude has a spell book fine tuned to get the fast damage on (Love that book too!).
In any case, its an awesome spellbook - job well done! I only wanted to post some of my snap reactions to the read and give a few thoughts on how players could begin to take advantage of where this book might be punctured. If there is one thing I love about MW, it is that every spellbook under level inspection has a weakness that can be exploited. However, this book has minimized them in good form.
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Staff of Asyra is one of the biggest threats for the golems. Therefore, it is crucial to have enough dissolve/mage wands in this deck or enough damage output to make him flee from the front line.
I've been noticing that the Priest in particular isn't afraid of any other mage in melee, even the Warlock (that one is closer but I think it favors the Priest). Being able to apply Burn after Burn regardless of elemental resistance is very strong, the Staff itself can make often deprive your opponent of actions, and it still costs you mana and actions to remove the burns. The Forcemaster's Galvitar can at least be punished with Aegis, Agony, and/or some armor but Malakai's Fire doesn't suffer from such control nearly as much.
I played some games vs Forcemasters (which seem to always use Forge), and a good, simple solution to Battleforges right now is Piercing Strike. It's not nearly as action inefficient as Dissolving all of the equips that come out, and though you might get behind an action (two if you're unlucky, none if you are) destroying the thing, you will not have spent as much mana as the Forge player. This leaves you more open to play a more powerful spell that will help close the gap.
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I tried multiple Turn to Stones, and it worked out better than I thought that it would. It really allows the Wizard to dictate play to a much larger degree than Tanglevines would for this build, and forces your opponent to respond.
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Yeah! As I said in a follow up post, tanglevine is much more effective in a tempo aggression control build, not straight control. Turn to stone does great work here.
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Played this deck yesterday over at my buddy's house. Had asked him if we wanted to go up against the winning Spellbook from Gencon. He said yes, sucka! Took an 1 1/2 hours (both played new to us spellbooks), 10 rounds and he was demolished, utterly destroyed. I had taken a total of 1 points of damage and he said at least I will leave you bleeding even if it is just a little bit. So I cast HoB and healed the damage the next round. The poor Warlord.
I never once had a fear. He threw down a Mangler Caltrops early on,. so the next round I fired up the Voltaric Shield stepped in to the zone for no damage. He went, then I teleported the Griz(w/BS) two zones over and who then went in to the zone in the corner and one shotted Grimpson Deadeye. The game just went down hill for him from there.
I didn't play the book at my or its best and still had no issues....
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Played this deck yesterday over at my buddy's house. Had asked him if we wanted to go up against the winning Spellbook from Gencon. He said yes, sucka! Took an 1 1/2 hours (both played new to us spellbooks), 10 rounds and he was demolished, utterly destroyed. I had taken a total of 1 points of damage and he said at least I will leave you bleeding even if it is just a little bit. So I cast HoB and healed the damage the next round. The poor Warlord.
I never once had a fear. He threw down a Mangler Caltrops early on,. so the next round I fired up the Voltaric Shield stepped in to the zone for no damage. He went, then I teleported the Griz(w/BS) two zones over and who then went in to the zone in the corner and one shotted Grimpson Deadeye. The game just went down hill for him from there.
I didn't play the book at my or its best and still had no issues....
I don't believe this was the winning book from Gencon. An Earth Wizard DID win, but I don't think this was it. I think it was a more traditional Iron Golem/Hurl Boulder/Wizard's Tower/Force Push + Wall of Thorns type of build.
Still, this build looks good and it looks fun. That's a cool battle report :)
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I'm still on my 7 hour drive back and posting on my phone is miserable but just to add I play one bear. :) I think with Charmyna in my place he would have won it all with ease, which isn't intended to take away from my opponents he's just that good and maybe even more importantly experienced. Before Gencon I had 2 games with the Grizzley book which I felt really hurt my decision making process during the tournament.
I was thinking this was the book that took Gencon, but it appears that the one that won is a very close version of this spellbook, but you are correct Hanma didn't post his actual tourney book.
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Ehh, they had... similarities. But Charmnya's [sic, maybe] spellbook plays quite differently than Stephen's. I'll give you a hint... One can play a lot faster than the other!