Been out of the game for a couple of years...

[Coshade]

I don't know man I would say 2 mana for 5 life  on a creature is a pretty good ability.

[Kelanen]

I don't know man I would say 2 mana for 5 life  on a creature is a pretty good ability.

More usually 3-4 mana, but even it were free I'm afraid I disagree - I am looking for a much bigger reason on a stat card to not play Priestess.

[farkas1]

Yea I'm not sure why holy avenger gets bashed It is very similar to pet ability with the beast master.  +5 life and a +2 Melee and +1 piercing is nothing to sneeze at and a really good ability.  And yea I'm on the similar mindset with Coshade that it is better to play on a Lower level creature to get it to give a big boost and make it more dangerous.  For 2-3 mana that is adding a bear strength or giant size with a piercing!  Paladin is going to be very good no doubt but I think there is still a place for a priest and with academy + PvS cards there is more options.

[Halewijn]

Yea I'm not sure why holy avenger gets bashed It is very similar to pet ability with the beast master.

I never bashed on any of the priest's abilities. I think they are pretty good. I just think that due to the support possibilities & flexibility, training and mage specific cards the paladin overshadows the priest as a holy buddy/big guys mage and the priestess overshadows the priest whenever you want to go more defensive.

I never called any of the priest's abilities weak, and I agree that the priest gets a huge boost with PvS and academy.

[Brian VanAlstyne]

The problem with Holy Avenger is unlike Pet there's qualifications to the Melee bonus. The Pet ALWAYS has +1 melee and if you follow it around as the Beastmaster, it's +2. The Holy Avenger NEEDS the opponent to attack something else, NEEDS to delay it's action long enough for that happen, and NEEDS to be in a position to do that. All the opponent has to do is have more creatures, have 1 thing guarding in the same zone and the Holy Avenger will never be able to use it's bonus. It should be an inherent ability; not one with caveats.

[Kelanen]

Yea I'm not sure why holy avenger gets bashed It is very similar to pet ability with the beast master.  +5 life and a +2 Melee and +1 piercing is nothing to sneeze at and a really good ability.

Pet gets you +3 life, +1 armour, +1 melee and a further +1 melee really easily.

Holy Avenger gets you +5 Life, and it sometimes gets you +2 Melee and +1 Piercing, but requires your opponent to cooperate or you to jump through hoops, and in either case often play badly to get the bonus.

Both abilities cost the same. +3 Life +1 armour is a little better than +5 life (note how Bulls Endurance is unusable outside familiars, yet Rhino Hide is used all over the place) but lets be generous and call that even. The Pet gets +2 melee for following your optimum strategy of killing the mage, whilst the Avenger is only slightly better at +2 melee and +1 Piercing, but only when they hitting something that hit you first, and if you want to hit it back. It's trivial to deny it from the mage with initiative tricks, activation orders (and some mages just won't trigger it anyway), and attacking creatures is frequently the wrong play. The Avenger bonus is  commiseration prize for when you need to use it, not something you want to use - you want to beat down the mage as fast as possible!

The two abilities are not even close. If Avenger was free, then Pet would still be better, as it is, Avenger is waaay worse.

[Kelanen]

I think there is still a place for a priest and with academy + PvS cards there is more options.

Nothing makes me happier than in a tournament than my opponent revealing a Priest... PvS and Academy haven't changed that.

In theory seeing a Bloodwave Warlord would make me happier, but that has never once happened!

[Halewijn]

hmm.. I've in your camp throughout this discussion Kelanen, but now I think you are underestimating the avenger.

+5 life is for a holy priest MUCH better than +1 armor and 3 life. Most holy creatures have a lot of armor already with low life. [mwcard=MW1C22]Knight of Westlock[/mwcard] becomes an absolute BEAST to kill with 5 extra life. (also very expensive though)

I agree that you need to do some hard work for the avenger to work, but the idea is to use healing spells to compensate the damage the priest suffers. No defending yourself needed and going full out to attack. The bonus is a lot harder to gain, but it compensates with an extra piercing.

Overall, I think Pet is still better than the avenger, but not nearly as much as you say.

[Kelanen]

+5 life is for a holy priest MUCH better than +1 armor and 3 life. Most holy creatures have a lot of armor already with low life. [mwcard=MW1C22]Knight of Westlock[/mwcard] becomes an absolute BEAST to kill with 5 extra life. (also very expensive though)

But if you put it on a Charging Griffin, the Pet bonus would be better - it all depends on the specifics of what creature you use - Knight of Westlock clearly has little use for more armour.

Personally, I think Knight of the Red Helm is the best Avenger, and I switched to that in my Priest book, from the moment it was spoiled. KotRH is clearly better with the Life than armour, but I'd still FAR rather have thepet ability and the dependable +2 melee.

Overall, I think Pet is still better than the avenger, but not nearly as much as you say.

Then we agree on the principle, and have to disagree on the degree.  I think Avenger is a weak ability.

[Super Sorcerer]

ב"ה
With priests I usually take at least 2 guardian angels, so I usually take the crown of protection as well. The ability to boost creatures armor anyway is an important factor when deciding between "+5 life" and "+3 life +1 armor". for the spellbook points of a rhino hide you could bring 2 copies of crown of protection, so the only reason to take rhino hide with a priest or a priestess is for the mage.
If you are going to boost your creatures armor with the crown anyway, then +5 life is better.

[Kelanen]

Crown of Protection is generally thought of as a very weak card.

2x Guardian Angel means you are playing a long drawn out game - which Priestess is better at. Priest needs to be going for a quick kill...

[ringkichard]

Crown of protection is very weak?

[Zuberi]

Crown of protection is very weak?

That's what I was thinking. 2 mana for an unremovable armor increase is pretty awesome.

[Halewijn]

Good mana wise, but it takes a lot of actions. I never use it as a priest, but some of my priestesses run it.

[Kelanen]

The actions are the problem - I've had it in loads of books and almost never used it. I've never had it played against me either, although I can't swear whether it has been in the books.