Arcane Wonders Forum
Mage Wars => Spells => Topic started by: Snotwalker on June 01, 2013, 08:37:09 PM
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In our beloved Mage Wars game, there are some spells which should automatically be included in each and every spellbook due to shear awesomeness, some spells which rarely (if ever) see the light of day and wouldn't know what a spellbook was if they were hit on the head with one, and some spells which may fall into the misunderstood category, and like the ugly duckling, have a Swan-like potential hiding inside their "they-have-a-wonderful-personality" exterior... In other words, the Good, the Bad, and the Neglected.
The Good:
- Dispel... If you're not already including at least 2 of these in every spellbook, then "welcome to the Arena!" You must be new to Mage Wars! ;D
- Dissolve... Similar to Dispel, at least 2 Dissolves should be on hand to rid your opponent of those pesky wands, armor, cloaks, and stainless steel fanny-packs.
- Teleport... Arguably the best spell in the game... You'll ALWAYS find a use for these babies, both offensively and defensively to (literally) pull your creatures out of the not-so-proverbial quicksand. 8)
- Seeking Dispel... Ever find yourself staring at a face-down card in the Arena, and realize that the card is staring back at you?... Me? I hate that! Seeking Dispel the sucker!
- Regrowth Belt... Dying won't help you win the game... But regaining 2 health every upkeep will! And to force an opponent to use a precious Dissolve to get rid of it? Bonus!
- Decoy... I don't know why I wouldn't include at least 1 of these everytime. Is it a curse? is it a nulify? Is it a trap? Only YOU know the answer to that! Plus, it's an extra way to pop an opposing Nulify!
- Cheetah Speed... This is simply a great first turn spell to cast on yourself! Cheetah Speed makes your Mage more flexible, aggresive, and slippery... why wouldn't you want a Fast mage? Why?
- Hand of Bim-Shalla... For the low low cost of 5 mana, add +1 melee, +1 Armor, or heal 1 health ANYWHERE in the arena? Did the designers forget to add a 1 in front of that 5 mana cost? Wow! Useful in any spellbook.
The Bad:
- Standard Bearer... 7 Mana to paint a large bullseye on your creature, in addition to encouraging crowding your soldiers into a target rich environment vulnerable to a Zone Attack, while the Standard Bearer himself gets no bonus whatsoever? Why? Just.... why? ???
- Barracks... 1) May not be adjacent to another outpost... 2) Flame +2.... 3) May not be adjacent to another outpost... 4) Did I mention it can't be adjacent to another outpost? :-[
- Pentagram... I love the Warlock... But this is arguably the worst Spawnpoint in the game. I want to make it work, but 14 Mana in the first round of the game doesn't fit the Warlock's aggressive style. >:(
- Mangler Caltrops... I only see the Warlord possibly including these in his spellbook since they are in his school, but why he would waste 5 precious mana points to throw down a Jacks game, sans the rubber ball? Meh.
- War Sledge... The War Sledge is a Two-Handed weapon.... The Horn of Gothos is a one-handed item... Warlord can't use both at the same time... See ya later War Sledge!
- Akiro's Hammer... So many people were giddy when they first saw this 8 Dice flinging War Machine... giddy, that it, until they read the fine print... Expensive, slow to reload, Flame +2, with a minimum range of 2, and only does zone attacks (meaning your opponent can simply snuggle up to your creatures, negating the non-conjuration attack threats)... That "new war machine smell" didn't last long. I originally had this in the Neglected" list, but after one more try, had to relegate this wooden monstrosity to the "Bad" list. Fun to use occasionally, but just not competitive.
The Neglected:
- Wind Wyvern Hide... Who's afraid of wind damage? As of June 1st, nobody... Hopefully this will change with future expansions.
- Bearskin... Frost Damage? Who even knows what that looks like? When the Necromancer enters the Arena, I'm envisioning a lot of bear rugs being equipped. But for now, it can sit on the cabin floor in front of the fireplace.
- Resurrection... As a spell level 4 incantation, a Holy Mage so far is the only one with a vested interest in this spell... And a spell that many snub due to its cost. But in a spellbook with several wands and a couple copies of Resurrection, a Priestess could really field an unending army of creatures for low spellbook cost. Think about it.
- Gate to Hell... An often-maligned Conjuration, but in a demon-heavy Warlock build, this bad-boy could truly turn the tide... whipping all demons into a stronger Melee frenzy, and properly placed, it threatens 10 out of the 12 Arena Zones with a nasty unavoidable 4 Dice Burn/2Burn attack! Expensive? Sure... But also extremely efficient when you consider the extent of it's reach.
- Shift Enchantment... I have yet to see an opponent play this spell in a game... but think of how flexible this spell makes all of your enchantments? Your buffed creature just quicksanded? (is that a word?) shift his Bear Strength to another creature that can still use it! Your opponent put out a better creature to curse than the one you bestowed much happiness upon? Shift your dark energies to a more worthy target!
- Fellella, Pixie Familiar... Maybe some out there really like this green little Pixie, but I have yet to see her fly over an opposing Beastmaster. But picture, if you will, an arena overgrown with Wall of Thorns... Your Beastmaster loses line of sight to all his critters? Not a problem... with a philanthropistic Pixie overhead casting helpful enchantments on all your wall-ignoring creatures swarming the opposing mage, Bear Strengths will be aplenty...
- Goblin Builder... "But he only removes 1 damage from a coporeal conjuration in his zone!" Yes... Not much of a Fix it Felix, but consider his other ability to cast conjurations where least expected. I envision this industrious fellow getting more looks in coming expansions when new conjurations appear.
- Goblin Bomber... Yes, he's dangerous to summon, if one isn't properly prepared... but combine these witless firecrackers with some Teleport Wands, and your opponent will come to resent their zeal for Orc and Country.
- Sectarus, Dark Rune Sword... You knew this was coming, right? Sectarus is often seen as the poor-mans Familiar. However, all of my Warlock spellbooks always include Sectarus along with a couple copies of the Hellfire Lash. Why? Because having a free Curse casting action, along with Piercing +1, is nothing to sneeze at. Is it better than the Lash? No. At least not in my opion. But as a game-starter, I'll take Sectarus over the Lash 90% of the time, and then eventually switch over to the Lash for the mid/end game pain-fest once my curses have been sufficiently shared with one and all. Curses! Curses for everyone! ;)
- Sacrificial Altar... Another card that resulted in many a "huh?" when first read. Why would you want to voluntarily kill your own creatures? Here's why: Quicksand, Charm, Force Crush, Banish, Essence Drain, Pacify, to name a few. Don't let near-death or permanently useless creatures go to waste! Toss 'em on the Altar for one last hurrah!
Obviously, the above lists are just my humble opinion, and there were a number of spells that came darn close to being included, but I wanted to focus on the ones I felt most strongly about at this time. I'm sure this list will evolve in the coming months, as new strategies and cards are revealed. But I do want to say that I'm really impressed with how short my "Bad" list truly is! This simply screams volumes about the quality of this game, and the work that went into designing it, considering the hundreds of cards being considered.
But there you have it. Snotwalker's take on the Good, the Bad, and the Neglected. 8)
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Anyone who's neglecting shift enchantment is missing out.
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You don't need Regrowth Belt if you are the Priestess or spamming Vampirism or other life draining spells. I don't value Decoy as highly as you do either.
Mangler Caltrops should be under The Neglected. War Sledge is surprisingly good with a solo Warlord build. It isn't bad at all: sweeping with 50% of Daze.
Wind Wyvern Hide and Bearskin will become more useful in the future. Resurrection is awesome. Shift Enchantment might not look like much at first, but I have seen opponents use it in very clever ways. For example, if you have two creatures out and one creature is close to death you can shift any enchantments from the dying creature to another creature so you don't lose the enchantment.
Akiro's Hammer is absolutely terrible. Easy to destroy, no way to restore it past using the pathetic Goblin Builders, immensely slow, and only good against conjurations. Not cheap either!
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Mangler Caltrops can be a fun addition to a Forcemaster deck since pushing and pulling creatures into them doesn't increase the cost of those spells and can be a potentially frequent occurrence.
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Thorg is good with mangler caltrops since he can force creatures to step on them. They can also help defend lairs since creatures don't trigger them on summon, and can be used to discourage melee ing other conjurations and objects, particularly from small creatures
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My problem with Arkiros hammer is that a fog bank or wall of fire shuts it down completely.
It can only target "corporeal" conjurations, so it can't shoot them or past them due to LOS, and its other attack is a zone attack and zone attacks don't hit items attached to borders. So it literally cannot hit incorporeal walls and can't shoot over through them.
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OK, so I had to move The Hammer to the "Bad" list... any other thoughts of cards that should be included in the Good, the Bad, or the Neglected categories?
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OK, so I had to move The Hammer to the "Bad" list... any other thoughts of cards that should be included in the Good, the Bad, or the Neglected categories?
Well, you could sort every card there is. Doubt it would be productive though. Only certain cards are "always good" or "always bad." A cards worth depends on a lot of factors.
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The Bad:
- Standard Bearer... 7 Mana to paint a large bullseye on your creature, in addition to encouraging crowding your soldiers into a target rich environment vulnerable to a Zone Attack, while the Standard Bearer himself gets no bonus whatsoever? Why? Just.... why? ???
- Barracks... 1) May not be adjacent to another outpost... 2) Flame +2.... 3) May not be adjacent to another outpost... 4) Did I mention it can't be adjacent to another outpost? :-[
- Pentagram... I love the Warlock... But this is arguably the worst Spawnpoint in the game. I want to make it work, but 14 Mana in the first round of the game doesn't fit the Warlock's aggressive style. >:(
- Mangler Caltrops... I only see the Warlord possibly including these in his spellbook since they are in his school, but why he would waste 5 precious mana points to throw down a Jacks game, sans the rubber ball? Meh.
- War Sledge... The War Sledge is a Two-Handed weapon.... The Horn of Gothos is a one-handed item... Warlord can't use both at the same time... See ya later War Sledge!
- Akiro's Hammer... So many people were giddy when they first saw this 8 Dice flinging War Machine... giddy, that it, until they read the fine print... Expensive, slow to reload, Flame +2, with a minimum range of 2, and only does zone attacks (meaning your opponent can simply snuggle up to your creatures, negating the non-conjuration attack threats)... That "new war machine smell" didn't last long. I originally had this in the Neglected" list, but after one more try, had to relegate this wooden monstrosity to the "Bad" list. Fun to use occasionally, but just not competitive.
Standard Bearer: Summon Thorg, put the Standard on him, and place a Fortified position in the zone (+2armor) and I bet you'll have a different opinion of this card. +3 armor to anything in the zone with a 6 armor Thorg. Also, you shouldn't be paying 7 mana for this, you should have your ring out already and flip it for a total of 6.
Barracks: barracks is a situational card, like most cards in MW. Do not use against the Forcemaster or Warlock, they will immediately fireball or force hammer it to death, as they should. Unlike what most people on these forums think, barracks should be reactionary.
War Sledge: If people would use sledge as it's supposed to be used, they would have better opinions of it. It's great for winning ground wars against multiple enemy creatures. If your warlord is in the same zone as the standard bearer, which he should be, you're rolling for a total of 10 dice in a single attack (6 on the first, 4 on the second), not to mention 2 chances for 50% stuns (which can force wasted attacks). War sledge is not a replacement for the warhorn, they're meant for entirely different situations, so they should not be compared against one another.
Akiro's Hammer: Another situational card. Should only be used as a reaction to topple more than, or at least its own cost, in mana. If you drop this just because it's cool/badass, it's going to have mediocre returns at best.
Other than the above I roughly agree with your opinions. Having 5/6 of your "Bad" cards be Warlord related doesn't seem like a fair analysis of the entire game to me, especially when those cards can be ridiculously efficient for their job.
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I think the problem people have with Standard Bearer is that is is situational and it only works well with swarm builds. If you can use it correctly it can be very powerful, but when I played Warlord I never got around to using it much.
Barracks is a spawnpoint, so whether you like it or not really seems to depend on whether you even like spawnpoints in the first place. I personally don't like spawnpoints because they are basically a huge lump sum tax on your mana that may not pay off. Also, as far as spawnpoints go, Barracks is nowhere near as good as the Wizard's spawnpoint and the BM's spawnpoint. Sure, you can pump it up to generate a lot of mana, but that requires harmonize + 2 outposts. That is a pretty significant investment. The drawback to making such a huge investment is having your barracks destroyed. Once that happens, it can be difficult to recover.
I don't hate the War Sledge like some people do, but the Horn of Gothos syncs better with the rest of the Warlord's abilities. War Sledge would be great if the Warlord was built for doing everything himself, but he isn't geared towards this at all; if you look at all of his special abilities/attributes, they have to deal with his creatures. I am crossing my fingers for a future Warlord that has abilities/attributes based around soloing. Then War Sledge could be a deadly tool. Basically, War Sledge is a fine weapon on its own, it just doesn't mesh well with what being a Warlord is all about.
I have played Akiro's Hammer maybe 4-5 times in the past. I have regretted bringing it out EVERY single time. It is slow, easy to destroy, only good against conjurations, and there is no good way to fix it. You bring it out, maybe it gets one attack, and then it gets destroyed. Or, if your enemy is smart, they completely ignore your Akiro's Hammer and think to themselves, "I'm sure glad he didn't spend all that mana on a creature!" I hope that, in the future, we have war machine conjurations that are a little quicker, less situational, and less costly. I am also hoping we get something better than Goblin Builder, my vote for worst creature in the game!
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[li]Fellella, Pixie Familiar... Maybe some out there really like this green little Pixie, but I have yet to see her fly over an opposing Beastmaster. But picture, if you will, an arena overgrown with Wall of Thorns... Your Beastmaster loses line of sight to all his critters? Not a problem... with a philanthropistic Pixie overhead casting helpful enchantments on all your wall-ignoring creatures swarming the opposing mage, Bear Strengths will be aplenty... [/li]
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Healing charm gives her the flexibility to act as a combat medic and enchantment transfusion lets her mass manipulate a battlefield. One of the better familiars out there
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Great list with a lot of good insight. I feel similarly toward a lot of these cards. One card I labelled early on as a "bad" card was Darkfenne Hydra. It's too expensive to be a bodyguard and too slow to usually be effective offensively. However, when used in tandem with teleport and call of the wild it becomes much more effective, particularly as a spawnpoint killer.
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Call of the Wild doesn't help Darkfenne Hydra, and even if it did, it would be so inefficient that ti wouldn't be worth it anyway. Force Push and Teleport are fantastic support for it though.
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1 hydra isn't animal
2 triple strike only gains +1 for first strike
unless you mean charge which is OK if you want hydra to move and do a 5 dice attack.
the hydra is one of those creatures I want to love because in a straight up fight no creature can beat him (based on average dice rolls). but nobody would ever stay in same zone as hydra and even worse attack the hydra (free counter strike). and currently there are no spells that would compel people to attack hydra (possibly a taunt or guard enchantment).
currently the best thing a hydra can do is be teleported into the enemies spawn point and sit there and attack everything that comes out. or a swarm of them (non-legendary) well placed so people can't avoid then for ever.
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Wow my brain took a vacation on that one. I was thinking speculatively for Call of the Wild and forgot about it affecting animals only, but teleport and Darkfenne Hydra alone are sufficient. Granted the armor on spawnpoints like Lair reduces some of the hydra's power, but like you guys said the hydra is very effective against creatures, forcing your opponent to consider carefully before sending them in to stop the onslaught. Nor do you need to turn the hydra away from his task if they do thanks to his built-in counterstrike.
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I disagree with you on Pentagram a bit. It can get up to 3 mana a TURN, which is HUGE. I drop it early with my warlock and I don't regret it, the mana builds up really quick.
Hopefully the female warlock will be even better at taking advantage of it ;)
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With the recent nerf to Battle Fury, I'm wondering if it's time for Retaliate to shine.
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With the recent nerf to Battle Fury, I'm wondering if it's time for Retaliate to shine.
When did it not?
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I guess maybe I overlooked it? It doesn't get nearly the press Battle Fury got, I don't think. I only count 4 copies of Retaliate spread across 4 separate books in Dave's Complete Collection of Spellbooks (http://forum.arcanewonders.com/index.php?topic=12477.0)post, and there are 42 books listed there. Or, for example, piousflea's Lord of Terror doesn't have any listed, and I could have sworn I saw Shad0w's Forcemaster build somewhere without them, but I can't find it now. Anyway, people often talked about doing 9, 4, 9, 3 damage, or more, and the major boost to that output, often called out specifically, was Battle Fury. That's why it got the nerf, right?
Credit where it's due, though, Mr. Saucy did claim to rely on Retaliate heavily, and this may have just been a perceptual lacuna on my part. Did everyone know about Retaliate but me?
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I love Retaliate. Its a really underrated card in my opinion.
At first I didnt pay it much mind, but the more I started keeping it around, the more I really started liking it. With an Enchanters Ring its only 3 mana total for an extra attack via counterstrike, pretty sweet deal for any heavy hitting creature or mage, or a creature with a strong secondary effect, its also a handy way to snuff out a flier that you cant otherwise reach. I also really like that its not a mandatory reveal, so you never have to worry about losing the counterstrike to an unintended creature.
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currently the best thing a hydra can do is be teleported into the enemies spawn point and sit there and attack everything that comes out. or a swarm of them (non-legendary) well placed so people can't avoid then for ever.
I disagree with your comment. My friend likes to play a wizard with a lot of metamagic and control-type spells (full complement of reverse magic, jinx, nullify, as well as teleport, force push, and jet stream). He summons the hydra in the same zone as my mage and then repeatedly teleports me back on top of it.
The hydra is quite punishing with its 3x3 attack, especially against unarmored mages (which I tend to be, because he likes to dissolve armor). It is hard to put up blocking creatures because he will drop essence drain on it. The hydra itself is difficult to kill with its high health, regen, and COUNTERSTRIKE.
The combination is not unbeatable, and the hydra is particularly weak against a mage with lots of strong attack spells or a finite life enchant. But hydras do well against swarms (because of counterstrike and regen) and hit hard if teleported into position.
Though it isn't the best creature by far, I still rate it as an excellent spell because it is one of the best creatures for what it does (hit hard when not required to move).
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The hydra is quite punishing with its 3x3 attack, especially against unarmored mages (which I tend to be, because he likes to dissolve armor). It is hard to put up blocking creatures because he will drop essence drain on it. The hydra itself is difficult to kill with its high health, regen, and COUNTERSTRIKE.
The combination is not unbeatable, and the hydra is particularly weak against a mage with lots of strong attack spells or a finite life enchant. But hydras do well against swarms (because of counterstrike and regen) and hit hard if teleported into position.
Though it isn't the best creature by far, I still rate it as an excellent spell because it is one of the best creatures for what it does (hit hard when not required to move).
...Agony completely destroys the Hydra's power. One curse and he's now rolling 1 die three times... on the flip side bear strength only adds to the first attack.
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Though it isn't the best creature by far, I still rate it as an excellent spell because it is one of the best creatures for what it does (hit hard when not required to move).
...Agony completely destroys the Hydra's power. One curse and he's now rolling 1 die three times... on the flip side bear strength only adds to the first attack.
I had never noticed that before. Do you think it is worth putting Agonies in the Priest/Priestess deck just for this? I'd probably need at least 2 if I wanted them to stick, which is 6 spell points. That could be a force push and a teleport instead...
But certainly, I will no longer fear the hydra when playing BM/Warlock/Warlord/FM.
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The hydra is quite punishing with its 3x3 attack, especially against unarmored mages (which I tend to be, because he likes to dissolve armor). It is hard to put up blocking creatures because he will drop essence drain on it. The hydra itself is difficult to kill with its high health, regen, and COUNTERSTRIKE.
The combination is not unbeatable, and the hydra is particularly weak against a mage with lots of strong attack spells or a finite life enchant. But hydras do well against swarms (because of counterstrike and regen) and hit hard if teleported into position.
Though it isn't the best creature by far, I still rate it as an excellent spell because it is one of the best creatures for what it does (hit hard when not required to move).
...Agony completely destroys the Hydra's power. One curse and he's now rolling 1 die three times... on the flip side bear strength only adds to the first attack.
Its getting so old with the "agony destroys hydra"
Who runs hydras? Wizards.
Who has close to unlimited access to metamagics that handles enchantments? wizards.
How many rounds are you gonna let your hydra do 1x1x1? 1 maybe 2 if your pressured.
If you play grizzly with your wizbro and it gets an agony are you gonna get rid of agony? yes - so why not remove it from hydra also?
The only difference is that grizzlys 1 round attack with agony will actually still do damage, where is the hydras 1 round with agony will do close to 0.
But then again.... the Hydra servers another purpose than the grizzly.
Its like the good old Gorgon... Because Gorgons are no longer the new black, alot of spellbooks dont even run purify anymore. I wouldnt be surprised if alot of spellbooks dont run agony either.
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Its getting so old with the "agony destroys hydra"
I agree, I have had that thought to myself many times and have thought continue to think that way and I will dispel that Agony and Triple Strike your Grizzly for 9 dice plus put a Reverse Attack on the Hydra.
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The issue is the asymmetry of the first mover advantage. Unless you have the Dispel pre-selected, the Griz gets a free turn, and then the Wizard has to spend an action and equal mana to get the Hydra back. Dispel never returns lost tempo or efficiency. This is why Curse Warlock works.
The problem with Hydra isn't that Agony is unsolvable, it's that by the time you've solved the problem the damage is done.
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Though I should also say that Mage Wand can go a long way to solving this problem by providing immediate access to Dispel (best case) or by letting the Wizard spend a QC to get access to Dispel immediately.
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That is a vacuum. What I mean is the Agony has to be played before your Griz's action by your Wizard (an action is needed here) and (assuming the intent is for the Bear to attack the Hydra) you Bear can move (if needed) to make the attack. Otherwise the next round the Agony is Dispelled and I get the 3x3 attack and possibly the CS is you decide for the Griz to attack the Hydra. Which is its power, much like the Griz if played against wrong can result in a lot of damage dealt out by the Hydra. Add in a Vampiric Strike, Critical Strike, or Piercing Strike on the Hydra and some of that armor advantage goes away...
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the hydra is one of those creatures I want to love because in a straight up fight no creature can beat him (based on average dice rolls). but nobody would ever stay in same zone as hydra and even worse attack the hydra (free counter strike). and currently there are no spells that would compel people to attack hydra (possibly a taunt or guard enchantment).
Not entirely true; if its damaged then any Bloodthirsty creature will have to attack it if it's in the same zone (assuming that you don't have another creature guarding which seems a safe assumption).
In a game I played last year I was forced to attack a Hydra a few times with Goran due to that reason.
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Shift enchantment should be in every Warlocks Spell book who is planning on quickly attacking there enemy. Cheetah Speed yourself and then shift enchantment onto Adramelech.