Gate to Hell rush

[lettucemode]

Hey all,

I really, really like the idea behind Gate to Hell, so yesterday I spent some time trying to figure out a cool opening for it. I realize that Gate to Hell will probably not be winning tournaments anytime soon this opener is more a fun experimental idea. I'll probably run it against my friends, that sort of thing.

One of the issues getting a Gate to Hell out is that it takes a full action to cast AND a full action to open.  So to help mitigate that, we're going to use a Goblin Builder!

Round 1:
19 mana
Move to middle row, Crystal + Crystal -> 9 mana.

Round 2:
20 mana
Full cast Goblin Builder, quickcast Rouse the Beast, sprint Goblin Builder to far center -> 14 mana.

Round 3:
25 mana
Goblin uses full action to build Gate to Hell, Mage uses full action to open it -> 1 mana. (poor goblin)

From there the player would have 12 mana the following round and could start summoning a demon every turn. Say, Imp, then Hellion, then Slayer, etc.

You also have the option to save the Gate + Open combo for a later round if, say, the opposing mage doesn't have any creatures out yet. Just have the Builder prepare the Gate each round, and play with your mage normally until the time is right to strike.

Any thoughts? It kinda sucks that opening the Gate doesn't attack conjurations but that's the way it goes I guess. Also if your opponent so happens to have two Hydro spells ready to go the gate will probably die pretty quick. Still, 11 health and 3 armor can take a beating.

I'm holding out hope that some not-yet-spoiled cards in the expansion will help this strategy out. Probably shouldn't bet on that though

[baronzaltor]

I tinkered around with a similar build of using Goblin Builder to get the Hell's Gate out..

but yeah, by and large Gate to Hell is to expensive and clunky to really be anything other than novelty.

[lettucemode]

I think in terms of numbers it is costed appropriately. The Melee +1 from the first full action and 12 mana could be compared to Tooth and Nail or Rajan's Fury. So in that sense it is overcosted. However, the second full action and 12 mana gives you a Summoning Circle (promo card) and a potential-10-zone Firestorm attack. Firestorm is 11 mana for one extra die and a 1 better burn roll, so we could speculate that a card that did Gate to Hell's attack on only one zone would be worth 10 mana. So you will probably get 20-40 mana and 2-4 full action's worth of damage out of a 2 full action and 24 mana investment. Plus the Summoning Circle effect, plus the kind-of-Rajan's-Fury effect.

So the question is whether or not its practical use is worth the cost (clunky). And probably it's not more often than it is. It'd be super good against a spread-out swarm deck though, which will be making a comeback thanks to Etherian Lifetree.

[sIKE]

I tinkered around with a similar build of using Goblin Builder to get the Hell's Gate out..

but yeah, by and large Gate to Hell is to expensive and clunky to really be anything other than novelty.

Yeah hadn't looked at this one in a long time, eh no. Clunky is no way to describe this guy. This is poor design balancing. Level 6. Yes! Six spell points in your book. 24 Mana to fully roll out. 2 Full Actions! For +1 Melee on your demons and a Spawnpoint. Oh yeah a 4 dice flame attack on all non-flying creatures, yeah that's right, the flames jet right past that Wizard's Tower! Who would want to burn that down? Once? Really?

With that said, you are making damn find lemonade from two very special lemons.

[lettucemode]

In case anyone was watching this thread, I've got some updates on this opening.

The first problem (ignoring GtH's clunkiness) is that the blast from opening the Gate will often hit your own mage. I played a game against sIKE on OCTGN where I got 2 burn markers on me from opening the Gate, and they did probably 8-10 damage over the course of the game. You can mitigate this problem by casting an Elemental Cloak instead of Rouse the Beast on turn 2.

The second problem is that the Builder will probably not survive if your opponent decides he wants to kill it. One of my friends hit it with an attack spell before it could build the Gate, and as a Familiar-prepared spell the Gate went to the discard. You can mitigate this problem by putting a Block on the Builder turn 3. If he dies anyway you can use all your mana for Adramelech. If your opponent doesn't attack the Builder, then the Block will save the Builder from the Gate's opening blast so he can repair or guard it on subsequent turns.

The third sort-of-problem is that your opponent may only have 1 creature out by the time you do this. I have found that it's better to wait an extra round or two before opening the Gate to see how many creatures your opponent will put out. Playing against my friend, I waited until he had a Fox and two Bobcats out, then obliterated them all in one turn.

Waiting also allows you to determine if you should build the Gate at near-center or far-center.

So the new opening is something like (haven't touched this book for a few weeks, my memory is fuzzy):

Turn 1: 19 mana
Crystal in starting corner, move to center row, Crystal in other corner.

Turn 2: 20 mana
Summon Builder, equip Elemental Cloak.

Turn 3: 20 mana
Put a Block on the Builder. For your second spell you could either armor up or summon a Slayer. Depending on how many creatures your opponent has out / how many you think he will have out in the next two turns, move the Goblin up. Also consider who has initiative next turn.

Turn 4 (or 5): 14-19 mana
Builder puts the Gate down, to be opened on some subsequent turn.

I plan to post another update some time in the future after I've tested this against DvN. Hopefully GtH will be more useful if the meta moves toward swarms.

[Fentum]

What is this madness?!     

Rushing, with a spawn point?

He's gone INSANE!

Interesting though.

[wtcannonjr]

Perhaps the Gate will have more relevance when more demons are released. It seems like a great boost to a Demon swarm with just the +1 Melee to all demons with one action. And it has a built in defense if the opponent tries to close and destroy it. You open the gate and toast him.

[Aylin]

Perhaps the Gate will have more relevance when more demons are released. It seems like a great boost to a Demon swarm with just the +1 Melee to all demons with one action. And it has a built in defense if the opponent tries to close and destroy it. You open the gate and toast him.

Need some level 2 Flame Immune demons.

[lettucemode]

What is this madness?!     

Rushing, with a spawn point?

He's gone INSANE!

Interesting though.

Not a spawnpoint  as for whether I'm sane...no comment.

Perhaps the Gate will have more relevance when more demons are released. It seems like a great boost to a Demon swarm with just the +1 Melee to all demons with one action. And it has a built in defense if the opponent tries to close and destroy it. You open the gate and toast him.

Need some level 2 Flame Immune demons.

FTFY. I mean come on, where are the demons? 3 expansions now and nothing...Oh well, I'll keep waiting.

[zot]

i think this may be an interesting way to combat the druid. all that lovely kindling....

[Aylin]

i think this may be an interesting way to combat the druid. all that lovely kindling....

It won't burn down her tree though, unfortunately.

[zot]

i absolutely have to comment on your id. on apple i am tim.is.awesome, or some permutation of that. how did you come up with your id?