Mind Control + Mordok's Obelisk: A viable strategy?

[sIKE]

sIKE, I'm no expert with FM like you. But all my FM builds have always used this trick. What happens is this...

I am within 3 of a big threat (say Vampiric Bear Strength Grizzly), have Initiative and, due to the QC Force Pull then attack tactic of FM, I have 18 mana in my pool. I choose Mind Control and Mordok's Obelisk in Planning.

After my first action, when I am now adjacent to threat, I QC Mind Control on threat and reveal it (pay 2+8) to Stun the threat before it acts. Unless opponent has Dispel ready, I Final QC Obelisk to let it die before opponent can Dispel the Mind Control. The Obelisk now deters swarm so I threaten any other over-invested threat. No book can really afford more than 2 Mind Controls at 6 spell points each (Obelisk is another 4 but always good for FM). Also there is a lot of popular Psychic Immunity out there so investing points like this is a big risk.

FM player should not telegraph by casting Obelisk first (it should always be cast Final QC before Upkeep to mess up opponent's plans).

Now, I've never thought about Mind Shield before (Wildhorn's proposal). It's a pretty specific counter for 2 spell points. Anyone who plays Enchanter's Ring (FM's other ring) and enchantments will probably use Decoys instead of Seeking Dispel to trigger Nullify (save points, deter Seeking Dispel, make 1 mana). Mind Shield like Retaliate is not mandatory, you don't need to trigger it to Charm (which can always guard or attack other objects). It's good when a card I'd dismissed as too niche is proved useful. That is if you're regularly facing this trick. Shame it doesn't get round Nightshade Lotus which is a poison attack.

This is typically what I have seen done. Since you have initiative you MC my Bear who is now stunned, I have been paying attention to your mana pool so I grab a Dispel during the Planning phase just in-case. The main difference in my play is whether or not my Bear has been activated yet. If he has, I wait till the final QC phase then cast the Dispel, so you cast Obelisk and spend that mana down. Otherwise I do as described previously, QC the Dispel then activate my Bear to remove the Stun.

[DeckBuilder]

Yeah, I have had that pre-emptive "I grabbed a Dispel just in case" done on me so I can well believe a good player would do this. I did say "Unless the opponent has a Dispel"...

Against a player of that pre-emptive anticipatory calibre, you have to be trickier. Firstly, you'll probably only see 16 mana visible. Because of the Decoy on me. Next, I may have pulled your threat out of your Dispel range. You may have spent a lot of Dispels on Force Holds already (they are more versatile Stumbles). I may threaten this one turn and do something else, like Sleep. How long will you hobble yourself with holding a Dispel "just in case"?

I was pointing out the scenario that the Opening Post gave isn't the usual order because it was so telegraphed. Executed properly, you have to be a bit "psychic" to stop it (and I honestly believe a player of your perspicacity would be able to sense the trick). And Decoys can help hide the true state of mana available.

There are mind games in Mage Wars Planning phase, especially when playing with/against a Mind Mage. Evaluating the calibre of your opponent and pitching your play appropriately is part of the game's skill. Sometimes you may be threatening something and this bluff is not appreciated by the opponent. "What? You cast a Teleport without even testing if either of the hidden enchantments is Nullify?" Facing you, sIKE, I would pitch my signals correctly.

That's a compliment btw (as I noted a bit of defensiveness in your reply).

[sIKE]

No defensiveness here, just played against the FM and played the FM a bunch. I really liked Shadows Hand Solo build pre-nerf. Haven't played her since the nerf though. Honestly the first time we would play you would get away with the MC + OB play on me. Once I know that is in your toolkit I would prep for it.....

The best I have  found against the FM is a gaggle of mids with my mage hanging back. Once the FM is at 16-18 life gone. Tank up my mage and go in for the kill. Force Push + Wall of Thorns to take down the Forcefield. Then just try me best to go toe to toe. I can tell you the Promo Morningstar changes the dynamic a lot with its Unavoidable trait add in a Bear Strength and the FM is not as tough....

[HomelessJoe]

As a side note to the other strategies because this is very situational:

In a couple games I have played vs a  forcemaster I have purposely put a dispel wand ( not the already built equipment card mind you) in hand as a deterrent for this combo. I find that by just having it, they will be very reluctant to even try. However if they do try you don't have to worry about the anticipatory dispel before the combo because you can just use it instead of card picked. Thus minimizing wasted turns and defensive playing.

Now I say it's very situational because with a strong player this will be shut down fairly quickly. Anyway, just a thought.

[DeckBuilder]

@Joe

I have played more against the FM than playing her (avoid d12 rolls). Your Mage Wand with Dispel suggestion is a perfectly good defence against the FM, especially if you have Nullify and Armour Ward protection. Ideally a Nullify that you can Transfuse from a (non-threatening Slow resilient) guard in range when a Dissolve is cast at it (at range 1 which that type of build avoids). Obviously this suits ranged control mages like Wizards best.

FM is very dependent on her enchantments to boost/protect her and hobble enemies. Her equipment is trickier to Dissolve (range 1, can be Nullified). Mage Wand with Dispel is perfect if you can protect it (it's bad news if she steals it to her off-hand, bypassing Armour Ward, but that's a pretty rare play).

The problem with FM's enchantment over-reliance is a Wizard can always Purge Magic (after testing for a Nullify) and laugh at total cost of her lost Forcefield, Bear Strength, Vampirism, Cheetah Speed and Mongoose Agility (latter for bypassing the Charmed non-flying guards being zapped by Spores). The only defence against mass enchantment removal are the Wardstones which work best with a mana denial strategy (which a FM can play). At least with a BM, you can spread enchantment buffs evenly when facing a Wizard. This is another reason why I avoid the FM. She looks so cool though....

I totally agree with you that Dispel Wand (from CoK) is just not good enough. What's wrong with it?
[1] it destroys enchantments at range 1 not 2
[2] most must-Dispel enchantments are level 2+ (Force Hold, Ghoul Rot, Enfeeble, Death Link, Vampirism etc)
[3] Wizards don't get a metamagic discount (from Arcane Ring) unlike with a Mage Wand with Dispel

Shad0w mentioned that, for CoK, he voted for Wand of Healing but got outvoted and Dispel Wand was inserted (no doubt with Wardstone, they felt the meta needed anti-enchantment tech). Sadly Dispel Wand is too limited. I'm very happy that Wand of Healing is in the new set. Needs to be added with the undead poison conditions, Lotus etc. BM finally has repeatable condition removal (this is what Staff of Beasts should have done, most BMs play Mage Staff). It's good news there will finally be this wider choice of wands. Genuine choice is good!